Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:14 am Post subject: "I Saw You on YouTube!"
I kind of chuckle when thinking about what Guthrie told me during NAMM and what one of his pet peeves has become: people walking up to him and saying, "Hey, I saw you on YouTube!" I was just browsing Guthrie's clips on YouTube and they're obviously getting a lot of views.
I guess it's good and I guess it isn't so good from another perspective. People see all these clips and may think that they don't need to buy the EC album or that they know all there is to know about Guthrie and his styles. But then, it's not just Guthrie but all great players out there. You do a search on any relatively well-known player and you're going to find dozens of video clips.
It's kind of sad in a way. The excitement of seeing someone live or on a professionally produced DVD has sort of gone out the window. Now there are so many clips of any player you can think of that there just isn't enough time to watch them all. I remember in the 80's dreaming of being able to watch someone like McLaughlin, Holdsworth, Paco DeLucia, etc. Now I do a search and I don't know where to begin. You watch a few substandard clips and you don't want to watch anymore at all for fear of wasting your time.
So is it a good thing or a bad thing or simply a double-edged sword? I guess that's the Internet and kind of like most of the forums out there, isn't it? I think I can certainly relate to Guthrie's reservations about this whole YouTube phenomenon. I know that Guthrie's notoriety has grown from the buzz on the Internet and I realize I had something to do with that so many years ago, but all these guitar videos on YouTube have become such an overload that clips are virtually becoming meaningless.
Do you guys remember that Korean kid in the bedroom playing Pachelbal's Canon with a bad fuzzy shred tone and getting millions of hits and even getting an article written about him on the NY Times? Even my father asked me about the clip saying that he read the kid is a "prodigy". "No, Dad, he's not a prodigy. He's just another pimply teenager wanking off in the bedroom instead of dating girls! But he is better than the average teenage wankers for sure." And then, my father goes, "But NY Times said..." "Dad, what does NY Times know about guitar players?" Finally he dropped the subject. Inside I'm thinking, "Please... Don't bring up the subject of that kid - the YouTube legend prodigy..."
Like Guthrie, I've got lots of mixed feelings about it. It's cheap advertising and good for promotional purposes and things like that, but like Guthrie says, it's hard to control QC when you're the artist. And as I mentioned before, the overload factor diminishes the artistic impact to the point that people will say, "It's just another guitar video. He's really good but I'm not going to buy the album and I won't need to see him live." Now if artists can get just a nickel or even just a penny for every hit, it may be sorta lucrative... Musicians sure have it tough... That's my rant for today. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
Was just thinking about Guthrie's rise to fame through the medium of Youtube not so long ago. It's a pity that Guthrie is approached in the way of "I saw you on Youtube", when we all know that there is so much more to Guthrie's playing than just the improvised vids that are on the net. It sometimes frustrates me, as people who comment on those videos compare him to their favourite 'shredders', because Guthrie is much more than just a 'shredder', and pigeonholing him into this category obviously isn't a good thing.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the whole Youtube phenomenon has been both a blessing and a curse for Guthrie. It certainly has helped raise his profile significantly, but as you say, most people seem content with what videos there are on Youtube, instead of digging deeper (coincidentally, Youtube was where I found out about Guthrie's solo exploits, much by accident through random browsing, however I knew about him through GT previously). Youtube seemingly has degraded itself to a blogging type of website. I'm not objecting to this (blogging), but every time I want to search for 'Guthrie Govan' (or even any other player), all I get are wannabe bedroom players who sit in front of their computer cameras and play over the top of some songs, or just 'shred' fro the sake of it.
Fortunately, I will have the chance to go and see Guthrie live soon at the Cornford birthday party, something which I wholeheartedly look forward to. I've also been very fortunate in being able to pick up the DVD's that Guthrie has (or had) available through Tone Merchants (thanks Ed!). I can certainly sympathise with Guthrie's thought's regarding Youtube, some of the same reasons why I don't want any of my own playing put on that website. _________________ "He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him a spinal cord would fully suffice." - Albert Einstein
As I've said in another thread on this forum before, he needs a website that people could go to, that way he could have more control over his output. If he wants to stay underground as it were, people are bound to make up their own ideas about who he is and what he does. A decent website would allow him to project a true picture of who he is and people won't compare him to other players or simply dismiss him as another shredder in the way that they may be doing now.
The real thing that blows everyone away watching these clips is Guthries speed and that's where the people who don't know any better stop and instantly compare him to other players without looking any further. He isn't about to upload the whole of EC on youtube is he so how is the average person going to know what he's about if all they see is another guitarist 'jamming' along with all the other youtubers on the internet.
Only know him from Youtube? Youtube is becoming as popular as terrestrial tv. Where's the issue? Not capitalising on that is the only point I can see. Where's the links to Cornford Records, Tone Merchants, Suhr Guitars, Guthrie's own page (as a nexus for other links).
I work for a rather British media corporation, I have done for too long now. Despite having numerous radio stations, digital radio, interactive tv, traditional tv, and the like, what do they use to promote their rich content on the web? Youtube; it's viral marketting.
It's a double edged sword if you think it is anything more than ephemeral and if you don't have people who find similar material and link it to your own - driving the traffic up. I assumed for every MAB keys to the Lamborghini post someone here would be linking to one of Guthrie's pages by reply.. forget the growling and barking from Ginger Syrup's fans.
I thought we all had some Fight Club like agreement to add a line to Youtube, mention a track on Last.fm, link on myspace, comments on other forums, et cetera et ceteree...</bugs bunny>
Last edited by frankus on Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:16 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 22 Sep 2004 Posts: 122 Location: chair, in front of desk
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:08 am Post subject:
I can partly understand it, because we all want to be sophisticated artists with a respected body of work. At the end of the day, though, if you develop a fanbase via Youtube (or Myspace, or whatever) so be it. It's a bit like "carpet bombing", because you also end up with all the illiterate racist cocktards commenting on your vids, but you kind of have to fight through them to get to the real fans.
That fine bass fellow Steve Lawson wrote a piece on his blog the other day...
... which also applies here. Youtube might seem like an ugly way of getting your music out there, but the fans find it a comfortable way of interacting with you, so why fight it?
Joined: 22 Sep 2004 Posts: 122 Location: chair, in front of desk
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:13 am Post subject:
I guess one of the problems of Youtube could be that the whole user interaction is running several years behind the web in general. With the web, everyone is pretty comfortable with the architecture of the whole thing... you want the BBC, you go to bbc.co.uk, etc. However, I wonder how many people just riffle randomly through Youtube, seeing all the quick-fingered gamers playing Pachelbel, rather than using the "channels" facility and going straight to the content they like.
Joined: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 570 Location: gothenburg, sweden
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:47 pm Post subject:
sure YT is viral marketing, etc, bla bla.
but the fact is that most people i meet (thru the web or in real life) that know about guthrie and has opinions about his music and playing has only heard/seen YT clips. not seen (bought) the three DVD's or listened to (bought) the album.
YT is actually a way of consuming (viral consuming?), not necessarily a way to the 'real' product. can be, and is a lot of times, yes. but not as a rule. that's not how it works in the mind of the users at least.
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:33 am Post subject:
adrianclark wrote:
I can partly understand it, because we all want to be sophisticated artists with a respected body of work. At the end of the day, though, if you develop a fanbase via Youtube (or Myspace, or whatever) so be it. It's a bit like "carpet bombing", because you also end up with all the illiterate racist cocktards commenting on your vids, but you kind of have to fight through them to get to the real fans.
That fine bass fellow Steve Lawson wrote a piece on his blog the other day...
... which also applies here. Youtube might seem like an ugly way of getting your music out there, but the fans find it a comfortable way of interacting with you, so why fight it?
adrian
I agree, Adrian. It's just an observation and also a reflection of a rather interesting era that we're living in. I'm sure glad that at least there are the videos that you're putting up in which you and Guthrie have control over the contents. Yeah, "carpet bombing" is a good analogy. I told Guthrie not long ago that it's no use trying to "convert" guys who don't get what he's doing or don't find what he does their cup of tea. We have to move on and find the ones who will appreciate what Guthrie does because we know they're out there. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:51 am Post subject:
Cass679 wrote:
Fortunately, I will have the chance to go and see Guthrie live soon at the Cornford birthday party, something which I wholeheartedly look forward to. I've also been very fortunate in being able to pick up the DVD's that Guthrie has (or had) available through Tone Merchants (thanks Ed!). I can certainly sympathise with Guthrie's thought's regarding Youtube, some of the same reasons why I don't want any of my own playing put on that website.
Yeah, things will go up a notch or two for you when you see Guthrie live. The videos and the CD, as good as they are, sort of pale in comparison to his live performances. You really can't say that about too many players and musicians in this age of recording studio gadgets and technologies. I won't mention names here but there were many well-known players I've seen live and came away being really disappointed and thinking that they're just not all that good live. And, of course, on the flip side there are players who didn't impress me on record who blew me away live and those are the players I tend to enjoy more. Some fave players of mine who are even better live despite having an illustrious body of recorded works include Jeff Beck, Mike Landau, Pat Metheny, and Scott Henderson. They all seem to take it up to another level in live performance. Guthrie does the same. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
YT is actually a way of consuming (viral consuming?), not necessarily a way to the 'real' product. can be, and is a lot of times, yes. but not as a rule. that's not how it works in the mind of the users at least.
But that's no different to Wikipedia being used as a fount of knowledge - everything on there is half-assed and truth mixed with reality.
Either the generation growing up with that understand the web is opinions and low quality or they're too thick to realise this and are a write-off. I reckon it'll be a bit of both. _________________ Fabulous powers were revealed to me the day I held my magic Suhr(d) aloft and said "by the power of great scale!"
Joined: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 570 Location: gothenburg, sweden
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject:
frankus wrote:
But that's no different to Wikipedia being used as a fount of knowledge - everything on there is half-assed and truth mixed with reality.
and that's no different in principle from any encyklopedia. it's all edited, written, the result of choices, not made by god, but humans.
frankus wrote:
Either the generation growing up with that understand the web is opinions and low quality or they're too thick to realise this and are a write-off. I reckon it'll be a bit of both.
word. +1. that's off course where it's at. my point is that many people seem to have an opinion about guthrie without ever having heard a complete song, just yt fragments . . . and they seem content with consuming music that way, thru yt fragments.
my point is that many people seem to have an opinion about guthrie without ever having heard a complete song, just yt fragments . . . and they seem content with consuming music that way, thru yt fragments.
Yes and from your own experience of hearing fragments did you hear a voice in your head saying "agh I'm melting... what a world! what a world! ruined! all my dreams ruined!" ? I did
But, it could be the fact that I've not got much of an ego ... or perhaps that I enjoy having my brain messed with, that I continued to watch and be amazed.
I can imagine a lot of kids tuning out... and I guess that's Ed's point, much like the 2 hand tapped version of Super Mario - Youtube is a freakshow and in such a context Guthrie's contributions might be assumed to be part of that.
But, you know what that means don't you? Exploit the media like Carlos Vamos: Macafferi VS Floyd Rose
By introducing a bit of personality to the stuff you get to define your stuff. Rockall is a good start but you need to watch for a minute or so till you see Guthrie being a loon.
It'd be rather cool if Guthrie made some statement on Youtube, I reckon it could be intelligent and funny... otherwise Youtube is going to be Youtube and not improve and Guthrie is going to be misunderstood - and he's not even a Goth, so that's not right.[/url] _________________ Fabulous powers were revealed to me the day I held my magic Suhr(d) aloft and said "by the power of great scale!"
i'm sure you're right, but i have no clue of what you're saying
.
I guess everyone wants to be a misunderstood genius... and I am 50% there
The Youtube footage of Guthrie doesn't exhibit the humour that is evident from the CD cover notes .. I reckon if that was addressed he'd be set apart from the hot-housed kids and bedroom shredders.
He needs to wear comedy shoes or something _________________ Fabulous powers were revealed to me the day I held my magic Suhr(d) aloft and said "by the power of great scale!"
i'm sure you're right, but i have no clue of what you're saying
.
I usually read the posts 3 times and I never understand what Frankus says! That's the reason you don't see any replies from me directly beneath a Frankus post, I have to wait for someone else to decipher it first
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
I was just browsing Guthrie's clips on YouTube and they're obviously getting a lot of views.
"No, Dad, he's not a prodigy. He's just another pimply teenager wanking off in the bedroom instead of dating girls! But he is better than the average teenage wankers for sure." 
And then, my father goes, "But NY Times said..." "Dad, what does NY Times know about guitar players?" Finally he dropped the subject. Inside I'm thinking, "Please... Don't bring up the subject of that kid - the YouTube legend prodigy..."
That's my rant for today. 
Was just thinking about Guthrie's rise to fame through the medium of Youtube not so long ago. It's a pity that Guthrie is approached in the way of "I saw you on Youtube", when we all know that there is so much more to Guthrie's playing than just the improvised vids that are on the net. It sometimes frustrates me, as people who comment on those videos compare him to their favourite 'shredders', because Guthrie is much more than just a 'shredder', and pigeonholing him into this category obviously isn't a good thing.
