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George Benson's/Shawn Lane's picking technique
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bill®



Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:59 am    Post subject: George Benson's/Shawn Lane's picking technique Reply with quote

Hey, has anyone experimented with the manner in which George Benson and Shawn Lane hold their picks? They both look a bit different (mainly 'cause Shawn had such whacky fingers) but it's the same principle. It is pretty much without a doubt the most relaxed way you can hold a pick, but it lacks the same level of versatility sound-wise as the more conventional pad-of-thumb-against-side-of-index-finger method. The principle behind how it works is as follows...

Let your hand hang, totally floppy, totally relaxed. Make a fist with it, and then release, just letting your fingers hang (don't try to stick them out, just release all tension). You'll see they make a semi-cupped sortof shape. Now, move the tip of your thumb to meet with the pad of your index finger. The idea is you want to lock your thumb into position. Depending on your hands the part of your thumb that actually meets the pad of the index. It might be the tip of your thumb or if your thumb is bendy it might be between the tip and the pad. Lane had such a hardcore hitch-hiker's thumb (it bent back VERY far) that it was very much the pad of his thumb meeting the pad of his index. As you have probably now realise, this pick grip 'causes the pick to be angled about 180 degrees to the string - maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less. It produces a mellower tone and you'll probably find that it makes string crossing easier (it also cuts through the strings much more readily). By the way, it is STRONGLY recommended that if your are experimenting with this technique you be using a smaller, hard pick like one of those Fender jazz picks, or of course a venerable Jazz III. Anyway, so you've got your thumb locked, touching the pad of your index, it should require basically no effort. It feels secure, but relaxed...right? Just hold it there for a bit, move it round (I know we're not a actually holding a pick yet), hurray...

Now, hold your hand as if your were holding the pick in the more conventional pad-o'-thumb-pressing-down-on-side-of-index-finger manner, as John McLaughlin, Ron Thal, Di Meola, or indeed Guthrie holds the pick (most of the time). Feel how comparatively tense it is?

So yeah, that is the virtue of Benson technique is the ability to hold the pick without retaining tension in the hand, whereas Guthrie, McLaughlin, any of their compatriots the employ the same basic technique, and any of use who also do so, and required to be constantly exerting pressure with the thumb onto the index simply to hold the pick.

So yeah, just wondered if anyone else had any thoughts on this. I'm wondering if Guthrie's experimented with this pick grip.


Last edited by bill® on Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:20 pm; edited 2 times in total
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bill®



Joined: 11 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Incidentally, if you look in the photo's of Lorn Leber (apparently the scariest electric guitarist anyone's ever heard that not many people have actually heard, but every single person that has says he's the scariest electric guitarist they've ever heard) playing with Stu Hamm at clubphoto.com, it appears that he also employs this picking technique, and if it's good enough for someone that supposedly had more chops than Shawn Lane....

Last edited by bill® on Sun Nov 28, 2004 2:59 am; edited 2 times in total
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bill®



Joined: 11 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.tuckandpatti.com/pick-finger_tech.html

Much more detailed analysis of Benson picking technique, but as such relates more to Benson than to Lane. Also, Tuck Andress seems to hold Benson's picking technique in the highest possible regard, even implying it is superior to any other guitarist he's heard. Obviously he's never heard Lane then, or those Gypsy guitarists off Latcho Drom...

But still, good stuff.
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EricT



Joined: 04 Nov 2004
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Location: Norway

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I've read that article from Andress a couple of years ago. I tried the Benson technique for a while, but found out I liked my own technique better. Very interesting reading, though.
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
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Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, how SL and GB pick is rather unorthodox. I've kind of messed around with it myself and I can see how extra speed can be generated that way, but I found it difficult to transition to other techniques such as strumming, sweeping, string-skipping, etc. I'm sure Guthrie has looked at it but it seems he's pretty set on his ways in the way he applies the various techniques. I get the sense that Guthrie goes with the "tried-and-true" efficient methods that also allow him to transition from one to another with a minimum of difficulty.
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Carlo



Joined: 13 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think any picking technique is viable as long as your consistent with it in your practice. Repetition will make any technique easier.
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bill®



Joined: 11 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alexkhan wrote:
Yeah, how SL and GB pick is rather unorthodox. I've kind of messed around with it myself and I can see how extra speed can be generated that way, but I found it difficult to transition to other techniques such as strumming, sweeping, string-skipping, etc. I'm sure Guthrie has looked at it but it seems he's pretty set on his ways in the way he applies the various techniques. I get the sense that Guthrie goes with the "tried-and-true" efficient methods that also allow him to transition from one to another with a minimum of difficulty.


I'm not trying to sound like a toss or anything, but if you found that to be the case then it's highly unlikely that you were actually applying in the manner that either of them do, as they can transition between all modes of play totally seamlessly. I've only recently adopted a method more like those guys, and have taught it to several students (as an option). ALL have found it to be totally superior (except for the variation of sound issue). I even converted a professional jazz guitarist that lives in my city.

The oscillation that Tuck Andress talks about in his essay truly is the key to extremely fast and relaxed picking, and the principles is employed but many guitarists to varying extents despite what he says about it's exclusivity to Benson technique (it can be clearly seen in the Fellowship DVD that Guthrie's fast picking employing the 'knocking on a door' movement in the wrist).

N.B. That 'knocking on the door' movement is a very subtle thing with the motion coming from the same place in the wrist, it is not as the description would suggest the wrist bouncing back and forth, as when properly employed the angle of the back of your hand in relation to your forearm will not change. I realise this is all quite vague, but it's hard to explain when not in person. But trust me, with proper instruction (and countless hours of practise), ANYONE can pick like Shawn Lane or George Benson, it isn't magic.
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alexkhan



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I talked to Guthrie about this topic during a dinner and his casual reply was, "Well, it works for them." He said he prefers keeping the right forearm and the wrist straight from the top as you see him holding the pick on the upper left corner of this page. Guthrie also wondered why Tuck would have such a detailed analysis of flatpick technique when he is the master of fingerstyle technique and rarely uses a pick. As unlikely as it may seem, Guthrie has a pretty loose view on technique and related matters. The way he sees it, "Whatever works for you."

And having watched Guthrie play that week for well over 10 hours and having talked to him over even more hours, I can honestly say that whatever he does works for him. He does think about what will sound the best and work the best in applying techniques, theory, etc., but he doesn't really have a rigorus approach or set methods that he tries to impose on others or even himself. He seems to rely more on intuition and on what feels right than on cerebral analysis. I'm not sure how he teaches, but I think he's more of the type who'll observe what you do and try to improve on what you are doing instead of saying, well, it has to be done this way or that way.

He really is a lot more intuitive type of a player and person than the methodical type who has set formulas for all the different styles and techniques like someone like Petrucci or Vai. Music is a serious thing for Guthrie, but not too serious. When he says a gig was fun, that's what matters to him in the end. I told him that the Jan 21 Fri gig went off really well the following day and he simply commented, "Yes, that was fun." There really wasn't any need to elaborate further. All I could think of was, "Good, he enjoyed it." I did hear from Zak on Jan 20 Thu morning that Guthrie said he was "very pleased" with the gig on Jan 19 Wed.
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Fink Floyd



Joined: 14 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting post, Bill, cheers.

I hold my pick almost exactly like Shawn, then (though I'd never realised this) because I have double-jointed thumbs too (my first thumb joint bends back to a right angle when I hold my pick). I've never thought about it before - I hadn't even realised that other people hold it against the side of the finger, but it works fine for me.

Let's hope it's a technique that stays good for me as I get better.
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kabuki



Joined: 17 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only diet that works is the one you stick to...

Copping someone else's picking style is only gonna confuse you if it's different than what you do now.
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RD



Joined: 27 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kabuki wrote:
The only diet that works is the one you stick to...

Copping someone else's picking style is only gonna confuse you if it's different than what you do now.


If this was true, there would be a lot more decent players out there.
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diminishedlogic



Joined: 09 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yo bill, where you at. I'd like to take a lesson and get this technique down.
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bill®



Joined: 11 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sydney, Australia!

This technique is not some ultimate cure to all picking woes, but it works great for a LOT of people I've found. I still believe that other methods can be just as effective.
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M@



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
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Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G'day Bill, I'm from Sydney Australia too (now living in Hong Kong).


Cheers
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aiwass



Joined: 19 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most serious pickers will tell you that constantly changing and overanalyzing your technique will get you nowhere. Find something simple that works for you, and stick with it. As with so many other things, continuity is what builds solid technique.
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