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Getting A nice Guthrie tone from the Valveking amp

 
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Nocturne



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:30 pm    Post subject: Getting A nice Guthrie tone from the Valveking amp Reply with quote

Hey,

Recently I stumbled upon Guthrie's work,
and I was quite amazed. (something that doesn't happen very often).
Now I've been a tone chaser ever since I started playing guitar,
and recently I acquired a Valveking 212 amp. (my budget wouldn't allow
me to buy a Hughes and Kettner Statesman, which I really liked).

Now I really dig Guthrie's tone, but the problem is that I find the Valveking
to be very harsh on the gain channel.
And I keep switching between setups:
1. Valveking pure, with gain channel, this requires me to back
the presence switch all the way down - the problem is that I play in a coverband mostly, and they only want me to use the amp for myself,
so it's on a stand blowing into my ears, which makes it a very harsh sound).
2. Valveking with my Visualsound Jekyll and Hyde in front of it.

Does anyone have an tips, or maybe any experience with this amp?

I play an Ibanez s470DXQM, and have some distortion/overdrive pedals available to combine with the valveking. (MXR ZW44, Boss Sd1, Boss DS1, Visualsound Jekyll and Hyde among others).
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Amart



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can offer you two bits of advice on this issue:

1. Guthrie likes to get the tubes in his amps really working, so keep your master cranked to get that natural overdrive sound. If you find it gets too loud, you can always buy a volume pedal to lower it.

2. Picks. A factor many guitarists overlook when discussing tone; however, in videos like http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2ErrWacVEks, the shrill scratching of his sharp Jazz III against the strings is quite discernible in his sound, and would help you imitate it.


P.S. Tone is in the fingers Wink If you really want to sound like him, try and copy the nuances in his playing, i.e. vibrato!
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frankus



Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 1100
Location: Chelmsford/Arachnipus

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Valve Kings.. we used them at IGF (International Guitar Festival) and they did the job with no fuss.

First roll off the treble a fair way and use more mid and bass. The Valve Kings are loud, Guthrie is possibly using a Cornford in an isolation booth so it can be loud.. recorded and played back quietly. That way the power amp tubes will be at full tilt and adding harmonic frequencies to the guitar signal.

I don't understand how a volume pedal would help reduce the overall volume without reducing the drive. An attenuator might help, allowing the amp to be driven but the volume to be tamed on it's way to the speaker.

Basically I think you'll need to use the volume on the guitar a lot more, Guthrie has the drive balanced between the guitar and amp so that the force of his picking has a marked effect on the driven sound coming from the amp.

I find the red Dunlop Jazz XLs are some of the softest material picks of that kind of rigidity they sound markedly different from tortex picks.

Hope some of that helps.
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Amart



Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

frankus wrote:
I don't understand how a volume pedal would help reduce the overall volume without reducing the drive. An attenuator might help, allowing the amp to be driven but the volume to be tamed on it's way to the speaker.

Well, it's after the the signal has been processed by the amp, so wouldn't all the gain be there, with just a lower volume?
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frankus



Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 1100
Location: Chelmsford/Arachnipus

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd haver to defer to my local valve guru, but I think the reason that Attenuators are used to turn speaker moving electricity into heat is cause the electricity would fry most other things in it's way and may damage the valves.

I'll ask Pete of New Moon Amps unless Mr C decides to answer this one.. either way Peter is a guru Smile
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Nocturne



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, thanks for the advice.

Recently I thought my preamp tubes were fried so I went out and bought 3 Mesa 12ax7 tubes. Replaced them with the EHX that were in the valveking, now the sound is superb!!!

The only problem is: the malfunction hasn't stopped. When I play on volume sometimes there are these sounds coming from the amp; like someone tearing paper in two (not very nice) I think it has something to do with the power amp tubes, but I can't see anything wrong with them.

Also; the Ohms on the amp were set to 4 Ohm by the guitar shop where I bought it. Now I thought you could lower the amps volume (and maybe fix the possible broken tube problem) by pulling out the two outside power tubes. Is this true? And do I have to be able to lower the Ohmage even more if I would do this?

Anyways; I'm trying to figure out a way to lower my volume and get around having to buy new powertubes (150 euros for two pair is quite a price, as soon as I have the money to spare I will buy new ones (possibly also Mesa's ) At the moment I have a really good sound, apart from the 'paper tearing' sound I hear from time to time. (sometimes its worse then other times, and it's on certain low frequenties that it occurs the most)
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sumis



Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 570
Location: gothenburg, sweden

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

frankus wrote:
I don't understand how a volume pedal would help reduce the overall volume without reducing the drive. An attenuator might help, allowing the amp to be driven but the volume to be tamed on it's way to the speaker.


u put it in the effects loop, as a return level. that way u keep the pream gain, and can still push the power amp while controling volume.

an attenuator might do the trick as well, if u can bond with them.

+1 on backing down a tad o the volume knob.

generally: back down on gain. push power amp a bit more. use a nice boost/overdrive in front to push the amp. i like my bb preamp, but something more open and less gainy would probably work better in this case.

.
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Nocturne



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well,

After a lot of afternoons spent with my guitar, amp and pedals, I finally have a tone that I'm quite proud of. It's not necessarily a Guthrie-esque tone, but it does the job for me. The problem with the Valvekings is that they tend to have a lot of bass of their own, so I have some weird settings on the clean channel for example.

My rig is now this:

- Whammy IV
- Dunlop GCB95 Crybaby wah (modded)
- Visualsound Jekyll and Hyde (with the ts808 clone side serving the function of a gain-boost for the amp, the amp's own boost is quite bright/brittle).
Sometimes I use the MXR ZW44 for this, the Zakk Wylde signature overdrive, because it also responds very well to my playing.
- MXR EVH phase 90

> into the Valveking amp

loop:

- Boss DD6 digital delay

Sometimes I throw in a nasty Digitech Multi Chorus for some ugly Mike-Stern sounds, but often this is it.
Oh, and of course there is a Boss TU 2 for tuning, often before the wah/whammy, or before the delay.

Personally I hate having to use an fx-loop, just some basic pedals are good enough for me (for some freaky sounds), but delay makes playing a lot easier. (that's why I always practice without it).

My guitar is an Ibanez S470 DXQM Quilted Maple top (dark/cherry red), with the standard pickups and the ZR trem.

I do have another question though: the 'solo-boost' function in the new Guthrie signature from Suhr, does it work on an active-eq basis, or is it an all passive circuit? I'd like to install something similar on my Ibanez.
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phantomnote



Joined: 24 Jun 2009
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nocturne wrote:
Well,

After a lot of afternoons spent with my guitar, amp and pedals, I finally have a tone that I'm quite proud of. It's not necessarily a Guthrie-esque tone, but it does the job for me. The problem with the Valvekings is that they tend to have a lot of bass of their own, so I have some weird settings on the clean channel for example.

My rig is now this:

- Whammy IV
- Dunlop GCB95 Crybaby wah (modded)
- Visualsound Jekyll and Hyde (with the ts808 clone side serving the function of a gain-boost for the amp, the amp's own boost is quite bright/brittle).
Sometimes I use the MXR ZW44 for this, the Zakk Wylde signature overdrive, because it also responds very well to my playing.
- MXR EVH phase 90

> into the Valveking amp

loop:

- Boss DD6 digital delay

Sometimes I throw in a nasty Digitech Multi Chorus for some ugly Mike-Stern sounds, but often this is it.
Oh, and of course there is a Boss TU 2 for tuning, often before the wah/whammy, or before the delay.

Personally I hate having to use an fx-loop, just some basic pedals are good enough for me (for some freaky sounds), but delay makes playing a lot easier. (that's why I always practice without it).

My guitar is an Ibanez S470 DXQM Quilted Maple top (dark/cherry red), with the standard pickups and the ZR trem.

I do have another question though: the 'solo-boost' function in the new Guthrie signature from Suhr, does it work on an active-eq basis, or is it an all passive circuit? I'd like to install something similar on my Ibanez.


to get a good Guthrie tone throw all the effects out the door and run straight into the amp. Might want some good pickups for your Ibanez. I'd suggest some Seymour Duncans. I've got good experience running different guitar with duncans through a Valveking at school.
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PGA n00b



Joined: 21 Mar 2009
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the thing with the volumepedal in the FX loop won't work
it's like turning down the master volume

the thing with the power amp overdrive needs a hot signal going into the poweramp and if that signal has been lowered by a volume pedal it will not distort or compress, whatever


an attenuator is the thing you need if you want poweramp compression while playing at moderate volume levels, e.g. a THD hotplate
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Nocturne



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah you maybe right,

Might have to get one of those, although it will be even more of a hassle to take the attenuator everywhere...

Played a big wedding party on friday and the amp was halfway up and on a stand blowing into my ears. Even with plugs in I still had one ear ringing that night. Currently I'm playing with less effects, and with the valveking knobs set pretty neutral.

How are you supposed to judge the sound coming from your amp?
When I set it at home, I listen to it in the room, which creates a nice tone, but when playing live (and forced to aim te amp right at me because of my fellow bandmates) that same sound is stil very harsh and brittle.
Though I can only imagine that any bigger amp would also sound harsh when you put it right to your ears.
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