Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:26 pm Post subject: What's up with the incorrect Waves middle run in JTC book?
This JamTracksCentral booklet contains all of the "composed" parts of Erotic Cakes and is supposed to have been checked by Guthrie. Everyone's favorite fast three-guitar run from the middle of Waves is accurate to the simplified version I've seen Guthrie play in live videos, but not accurate to the actual composed version from the studio album recording.
The run from the album utilizes 16th septuplets with occasional longer 8th septuplets on the descent and later dotted 16th septuplets on the ascent.
The simplified version starts 1 1/2 semi-tones lower and is all 16th note sextuplets.
Did Guthrie forget how he originally played this? Like I said, the simplified version from the booklet is what he plays live in all of the videos I've seen, but the original studio version is an order of magnitude or two more difficult and IMO much more interesting.
No hate--just about everyone simplifies some things live. It's just unfortunate that the simplified version made it into the closest thing to an official Erotic Cakes tab book that we have.
For what it's worth, Muris Varajic's cover of this song (by far the best cover IMO) features the correct original version of the descent, but I can't quite make out in the three guitar chaos if he manages to throw in the dotted notes on the ascent (much more difficult than the 8ths on the descent). He finishes a fraction of a second late so he possibly attempted it at least..?
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:46 pm Post subject:
Hey ralphuz, I brought your post to Guthrie's attention and Guthrie kindly took the time during a very busy tour schedule to reply and I'm posting the following on his behalf:
"That lick was originally written as a constant stream of sextuplets, and it's been that way ever since. I never changed it or simplified it at any point - trust me! If you listen at normal speed, I think it's fairly obvious that the lick is intended to be a long run of evenly spaced notes.
If you zoom in to "electron microscope" levels with some kind of slowing down software - and I'm pretty certain that this is what happened here! - then yes, you'll eventually detect some tiny timing variations, purely because the line is being played by a carbon-based life form rather than by a machine. I can well believe that the last note before a string crossing would be a few milliseconds longer than the notes on either side of it, but to interpret that as "dotted notes" is to miss the point, I think.
If some more recent recording sounds more like strict sextuplets when you slow it down, that serves only to illustrate that I've played that series of notes many more times since I recorded the album, so hopefully I'm gradually getting better at playing the lick, rather than "simplifying" it!
Also, the album version has three guitar lines in harmony: I choose to play the one which sounds the most like the "main melody" to me, and I believe that's the one which the JTC guys transcribed. If your ears hear a different harmony part as the main melody, fair enough - but that doesn't mean that the transcription is wrong
(Incidentally... there are definitely one or two harmonically questionable notes in that section if you listen carefully. I can hear them distinctly even when listening at the normal speed and, to my ears, they're much more conspicuous than any timing anomalies... but I guess those didn't bother you so much?!)
When you get into the realms of slowing stuff way, way down, you have to be careful not to lose track of the "big picture", I think. Having said that... it's very cool that you have an interest in transcribing things for yourself: keep doing it, and good luck!" _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
Thanks much to Guthrie for taking the time, and to you for posting it.
It's not often my ears deceive me, but I believe you that they have indeed this time. Considering the speed of the run, I think I allowed the accented notes to trip me up and create some sense of longer notes in their vicinity (auditory illusion? ). I can tell you that this will certainly make my quest to master it by 2023 more manageable, so I'm quite relieved
My apologies as for a moment I questioned if you truly reviewed all of the tabs in the booklet for accuracy. With some of the "official" tab books I've read over the years, I may be a little cynical.
As for odd note choices, the single D# towards the end of the highest guitar's part does drive me nuts but I thought I would save that for another obnoxious nit-picky guitar nerd thread
Thanks again for taking the time out to address this, and for the encouragement. Very cool of you. (I only regret that I seem to have written the topic post in the most dickish way imaginable... Consider me thoroughly humbled.)
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