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Economy of movement

 
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James W



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:16 pm    Post subject: Economy of movement Reply with quote

Can anyone give me any tips on moving my fingers (or pick) as little as possible?

Some players seem to ignore this rule but generally can play a heck of a lot faster than me. Why is this?

Is moving efficiently that important?



... Love James XXX
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Greg



Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 45
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Economy of movement Reply with quote

James W wrote:
Can anyone give me any tips on moving my fingers (or pick) as little as possible?


Why not use Economy Picking? As for Fingers I'd say just try and keep your fingers closer to the strings but not touching them, just close enough so that it takes minimal effort to when you go to pluck them. Actually that could be used with the Pick as well, making sure you don't stray too far away from the strings.

James W wrote:
Some players seem to ignore this rule but generally can play a heck of a lot faster than me. Why is this?


Thats probably just down to practice.

James W wrote:
Is moving efficiently that important?


I wouldn't say it's that important but I can almost guarantee that others will feel differently, actually there is one local teacher who says you should Economy Pick everything Confused I disagree with that statement but I guess everyone has their opinion and has the right to voice it so who am I to argue?

James W wrote:
... Love James XXX


Shocked Shocked I'll pretend I didn't read that part. Laughing Laughing

Greg
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James W



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What happened there?


Why are you going to pretend that you didn't read that part?


Why did the quote include things I hadn't said?

I'm confused Embarassed Sad



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frankus



Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 1100
Location: Chelmsford/Arachnipus

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone said that Greg is a dude we know from the GT forums (who's gained a reputation for being a windup), and to be honest, this is the first post here, where I think it could be the case, so don't get too confused. Alternatively he might be referring to the: Love James XXXX thing Wink

I spent years playing scales as fast as I could with a really weak little finger that lifted about 4 inches off the fretboard to slam down and sound a note, it'd pull all my other pinkies out from the fretboard to a lesser degree.

I recently got given this exercise to remedy it; it's boring, it's excruciating, it's the "smaller finger movement exercise"

Play the 5 positions of the major scale at 50bpm and don't let any finger lift more than 1mm above the string. While you're doing it concentrate on making the note sound right (it's easy to mute it with an idle finger) keep your eyes on the distances of your figners and you'll spot strings or frets that raise issues.

When you've got that going well (it'll take a while and 1mm is an goal, rather than a starting point) focus on the pick and making really small movements with the pick completing it's journey just the other side of the string.. again, figure out where the best spot to stop moving the pick is.. too close and the note will buzz, but too far and it's not the smallest movement.

Get this totally nailed at 50bpm, you're retraining your fingers and going too fast too soon will just mean you're reinforcing bad habits... there is another bit with matching the fretting with the picking to get the clearest note, but that was another teacher about ten years ago and it might be me getting ahead of myself..

If you've not got it already, get Creative Guitar as it is crammed fully of practical goodness on this and other exercises.
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Greg



Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 45
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankus is right, I was just laughing at your Love James XXX Part. Nothing personal. Smile

As for your other questions:

"Why did the quote include things I hadn't said? "

They were my answers, sorry about that, something crazy happened that I couldn't fix. I hope it makes sense.
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frankus



Joined: 13 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool, I shall now use the powers invested in me by Glenda the Good to fix Greg's post... now close your eyes and click your heels together three times and say: there's no place like Tone Merchants... there's no place like Tone Merchants...
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Greg



Joined: 11 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Thanks Frankus.
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James W



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any tips on the picking side of efficiency?



Thanks for the exercises, by the way.




... Strokes and fondles, James XXX
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Greg



Joined: 11 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try and learn a Technique called "Economy Picking".
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Carlo



Joined: 13 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just practice with a metronome....trust me it will come dood
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frankus



Joined: 13 Sep 2004
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Location: Chelmsford/Arachnipus

PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guitar teacher is also one of the teachers at the Guitar Institute and he recently pulled me up on my economy picking, basically there was a tangible pause when I switched from cyclic picking to sweep picking.. to be honest it was a subconscious thing that I was ever playing that way.

His advice was to ditch economy picking and stick to straight alternate picking as few guitarist ever really use economy picking in normal playing conditions as it was far easier to get a consitent sound using alternate picking.

He even cited a particular contributor to Guitar Techniques, who'd told him that it's not all that as a technique.

So for picking leave the economy stuff be until you've a really good flow with alternate picking. I'm still undecided as to whether I'll keep economy picking in my regular arsenal.. I probably adopted it too soon.. so much of my practice in the past involved techniques and theory I wasn't ready for.

The current exercise I have to grill my picking is playing steps of thirds or fourths on a major scale:

So on a major scale play R,3,2,4,3,5,4,6,5,7,6,R and so on at a really low speed and look at where your picking hand is going.... the other one is the same but R,4,2,5,3,6,4,7,5,R and so on..
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I have the power!
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James W



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like economy picking: simple as that.



It's quite hard trying move your pick as little as possible, and relax.




... Love James XXX
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frankus



Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 1100
Location: Chelmsford/Arachnipus

PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's just a case of drilling it in. If it's muscle memory you'll be relaxed doing it. One of my friends has an irritatingly light touch with a pick... irritating as I covet it Embarassed

The Creative Guitar 1 book likens the process to writing. When you consider what you do to write on a piece of paper (clamping the paper still and performing very intricate movements including loops and little jumps and punctuation) the process takes on a new angle.

I have a son who's learning to read and write at the moment and I often relate my progress in reading music and mastering guitar techniques to his learning to read and write respectively. Put in that context you get a lot more reasons to be patient and more forgiving of your own musical progress. It will take time.

That said, this sounds like I'm advocating slavishly adopting techniques. What I really want to proffer is finding an approach to learning the guitar.. after all, since there's never a destination (that is, you'll never have "learnt" the guitar) the whole focus of playing should be about approach.

That aside... would you care to explain why Germaine Greer is your image? Just curious Wink
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Fabulous powers were revealed to me the day I held my magic Suhr(d) aloft and said "by the power of great scale!"

I have the power!
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James W



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I really really like Germaine Greer.


Reading her books basically turned me into a feminist.


I think she's great.


Also, see my signature/quote.

... Love James XXX
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