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Guitarists Guthrie REALLY Likes A Lot
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carlo wrote:
alexkhan wrote:
Some people who acknowledge him as a great talent and live only minutes away from here refused to come see him play during NAMM week. I'm just thinking, "Geez, here he is for 4 nights, you live within half-an-hour from here, and you don't want to pay lousy $20 to see this guy play for 2 hours?" Even that shredder friend I mentioned above refused to come see him play. But that's just how some people are, I guess.




that just angers me....it's just not fair Evil or Very Mad


Yeah, tell me about it. Rolling Eyes But heck, who are we to argue about personal tastes? The thing is that even non-players and non-musicians were blown away and thoroughly enjoyed the Guthrie concerts. All of the shows were pretty much sold out, although many had to leave during the Fellowship sets because it'd be getting late on weeknights. But I had to push real hard to fill up the seats and I was really surprised that a lot of the regular customers who knew Guthrie was playing didn't catch any of the shows. I still don't understand what that's all about.
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James W



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, you do sound like such a wise and intelligent guy alexkhan.

I don't depressed or feel inadequate about my technique compared to virtuosic players; I just thought I should mention (like all nature vs. nurture debates) that it is always a mixture between the two.

Anyway, I've recently heard Paco De Lucia and his is absolutely awesome. I adore the flamenco sound and his playing is so musical.


Here's a good question: why do acoustic virtuosos always end up sounding much more musical than electric ones?


... Love James XXX
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James W wrote:
Wow, you do sound like such a wise and intelligent guy alexkhan.

I don't depressed or feel inadequate about my technique compared to virtuosic players; I just thought I should mention (like all nature vs. nurture debates) that it is always a mixture between the two.

Anyway, I've recently heard Paco De Lucia and his is absolutely awesome. I adore the flamenco sound and his playing is so musical.


Here's a good question: why do acoustic virtuosos always end up sounding much more musical than electric ones?


... Love James XXX


Hey James, I know you wouldn't be the type who'd feel depressed or feel inadequate about your own technique. All the other great players who are confident about what they're doing that watched the Guthrie shows here certainly didn't look depressed or intimidated. Even someone like Greg Howe was inspired by what Guthrie was doing. The open-minded ones who are comfortable with and confident about what they're doing - no matter what style they play - aren't going to be intimidated or feel depressed as they know it's not a competition.

But I was also pointing out that some do feel intimidated or get put off or depressed about it, and it's understandable to a degree, but I don't quite understand some of the jealousies and negative attitudes that I've noticed amongst some players and guitar music fans towards Guthrie on other forums and people I see on a regular basis. I totally understand if what Guthrie (or someone like Greg Howe, Shawn Lane, Scott Henderson, etc.) does isn't one's cup of tea, but to say, "yeah, he's good but..." and look for little negative things to say or that someone else is "better" just comes off as jealousy and sour grapes IMO.

And, yes, it's definitely a combination of nature and nurture. Some are more geared towards one than the other, but a nice balance between the two is what we'd all like to observe and enjoy. Some guys do sound too practiced and mechanical, even if they do have the technical facility. My thing with Guthrie has always been, "Hey, check out this guy. He's quite a talent and has obviously worked on a lot of things. You'd be inspired by what he does." And if the music is not to the person's taste, cool. If you really like what he's doing, great! I'm happy whenever someone discovers Guthrie for the first time and really digs what he's doing.

Yeah, Paco is beyond incredible. And his innate musicality is just pure beauty. He has to be considered one of the greatest musical wonders of the world. What he has done for flamenco and how he has pushed the boundaries of that musical form is truly remarkable. There's a reason why John McLaughlin looks up to Paco and has said that the flamenco technique is the superior method when compared to classical or using a flatpick. But as you say, when it comes to Paco, it's the musicality that stands out even more.

Regarding your question, that's a good subject for debate. I totally agree with you on it, too. My thoughts are that acoustic players have to really feel the instrument more. They're also dealing with a much wider dynamic range than the electric guitar through an amplifier. It is more immediate and sensitive than the electric, allowing the player to connect more deeply with the instrument than the electric player. It is a physically much more demanding instrument to play than the electric - bigger strings and, normally, much higher action. I just believe it requires that much more effort - both physically and mentally - to master the acoustic compared to the electric.

The electric has its own beauty, but it's easy to fall into a crutch just repeating oneself over and over again - simply playing patterns and letting the fingers do the walking without much thought. Basically, I'm saying that one can get lazy real easily on the electric - especially on the brain's side. It's so much easier to play fast and do technically impressive things on the electric with the amp's gain dimed all the way. One doesn't have to be as accurate as one can hide behind the distortion or a blaring band behind you. The dynamic range is much more limited on the electric as the amp tends to compress your attack, especially with overdrive and gain. I think that's why so many electric players don't sound very musical - they're lazy and they let their fingers move ahead of their brains. With the acoustic, one really can't do that or you start sounding like a joke.

Well, that's my experience of it since I tried to play the acoustic as well in the past. Wink The interesting electric players are the ones who think (and feel) before they let their fingers execute the movements. They are also very cognizant about dynamics - varying their attack and the volume levels with their hands and with the controls on the guitar or pedals and the amp's controls. I find that the lack of dynamic range on the electric to be a pretty big hindrance to developing a musical style of playing. It's so easy to let the fingers and amp do all the work and still make it sound good to oneself and an audience that's not very critical. The acoustic player just doesn't have that kind of luxury. They are forced to look deeper into themselves to make interesting musical statements. Just my $2 worth of insight into the matter. Wink
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James W



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I've noticed that with electric playing the notes and music often get lost with the effect; you know what I mean? For instance when an electric guitarist plays a tapped arpeggio it sounds 'bubbly' or 'liquid-like' whereas when a good acoustic player plays an arpeggio; you can hear the notes and it sounds like an arpeggio. What I'm saying is that with the electric the music gets lost within the effect or technique.


Even with really good players I've noticed this and only really after listening to (and playing) classical/flamenco guitar.


... Love James XXX
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James W



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I just noticed that Guthrie said he liked 'the old Cacophony albums' (or something along those lines) so he probably does like Jason to a certain degree.



... Love James XXX
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Edovinus



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a track called Waves that GG did for a Guitar on the Edge cd that reminds me quite a bit of Jason Becker.
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edovinus wrote:
There's a track called Waves that GG did for a Guitar on the Edge cd that reminds me quite a bit of Jason Becker.


I have to say that's one track of Guthrie's that I really don't care for. I'm gathering that it was recorded a real long time ago (early-90's?). Guthrie just doesn't play like that anymore and his tone is also a lot more organic with less gain than the super saturated shred tone on that track. I know for sure that Guthrie hates that old studio version of the Rhode Island Shred (which I believe also appeared on the Guitars on the Edge compilation) which he said was recorded when he was 18.
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shredrulez
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alexkhan wrote:
Edovinus wrote:
There's a track called Waves that GG did for a Guitar on the Edge cd that reminds me quite a bit of Jason Becker.


I have to say that's one track of Guthrie's that I really don't care for. I'm gathering that it was recorded a real long time ago (early-90's?). Guthrie just doesn't play like that anymore and his tone is also a lot more organic with less gain than the super saturated shred tone on that track. I know for sure that Guthrie hates that old studio version of the Rhode Island Shred (which I believe also appeared on the Guitars on the Edge compilation) which he said was recorded when he was 18.


i have to agree with you ed that some of those old tracks sound dated. you can just tell by the song fives. i think the production on the track that's on the alchemists album is pretty bad although the solo on it is pretty incredible. but i prefer the solos on the clinic dvd and especially the jan 19 show dvd. his lines are just more sophisticated now. and yeah, his tone is a lot better as well. Very Happy
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M@



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 214
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I remember being a spotty faced 17 year old being completely floored by Yngwie's '94 Rising Force album (tone, attitude, technique, originality), and so much wanted to be able to play like that... I grabbed a few of those Shrapnel LP's (hmmm... remember that black stuff called Vinyl?) and HATED the tones on those albums - buzzy and sharp, musically boring! I could master sweep appeggios OK, but it just felt so fake trying to incorporate them into my playing. Each to his own, I guess.

Suffice to say that I never really achieved that neo-classical style, and instead was inspired more by the tones of Carlton, Ford et al, and fortunate to have some great jazz teaches that showed me that there was more than just pentatonics and modes, and learnt more about "tension and release" through triads and altered dominant scales.

I think what a lot of those 80's shredders lacked was the dymanics and subtly, and that's why it's so refreshing to hear Guthrie's playing. On the point of Jason Becker, I thought his stuff on the David Lee Roth album was very good indeed, and it's such a shame now regarding his health afflication.


Peace
M@
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