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Using What U Got.....

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Guthrie Govan Discussion Forum Index -> Guthrie Tones and Gear
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shredizalive



Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:38 pm    Post subject: Using What U Got..... Reply with quote

This is something that has been bugging me for a long time, so hopefully you fine forumers might have some good opinions on this:

I know that most of us (musicians) can't afford most of the gear we drool and discuss so rabidly. I mean lets be serious, how many of us can afford a $3000+ Suhr or that Cornford/Bogner/Deizel we dream about? It's hard to imagine having that kind of cash to really spend on our gear desires and if any of you have families (which I am sure many of you do), you know that it becomes downright impossible to achieve.

What I've come to learn from my years of playing and spending money on gear is the fact that you really need to use WHAT you have at your disposal and work to get the best out of your gear.

Some of you may balk, but I've been playing most of my gigs with the AMAZING Yamaha DG100 2x12 combo with a Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive,
Boss Chorus and one a volume pedal. Using my Zion Bent T (which is an amazing guitar and I admit that I sold 4 guitars to get one about 1.5 years ago), I've managed to get the best tone I've ever had - FROM A MODELLING AMP!!!!!.

Sure, I'd love to get a Bogner or a Cornford, but getting $3K for one of those is hella-difficult. So I use what I've got and spent some serious hours testing different things to get a great sound. I made sure that the amp had a GREAT clean channel FIRST, not the other way around. I made sure it had proper headroom and could handle good volume output.
I also A/B a bunch of pedals to get a great rig that cost 1/3 of a boutique amp.

My point is this: One day I WILL own the boutique gear because it IS worth the price and the tone is unmatched. But at this moment, I have to make due with what I have and I've found more joy playing through my rig than sitting around sulking over the beautiful goodies I might NEVER get.

Tone Merchants is by far one of the best things I've seen on line. So much so, that I might put my fear of flying aside and one day venture to this great place and buy the gear I've dreamed about. Till then....I am using what I got.
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dkaplowitz



Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 73
Location: Narberth, PA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a lot of truth to what you say. If you develop your ear and your playing along with the ability to coax good tone out of garden variety gear more than you do research on which boutique amp or guitar everyone's raving about, you'll be in a better position to make smarter gear choices. I heard a guy on another forum post a soundclip and though he was using all the "right" gear (about $7,000.00 worth on this one clip), his playing was so bad that it might just as well have been a Mexi strat and a transistor Fender Champion. That's when it became clear to me that "Less ebay more Mel Bay" is the only way to approach sounding good.

And frankly there are a bunch of boutique guitars and amps that I hear people screaming about online that I think are totally overrated yet they sell for thousands upon thousands of dollars. I wonder if anyone will know about some of this stuff in 5+ years. It's always best not to get too caught up in the hype and hurry yourself into expensive purchases. I find that patiently waiting, listening, trying always saves you tons of money in the long run. Most of the hottest, most expensive items today will be on ebay in a year or two for 1/3 the price they're going for today, or less.
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shredizalive



Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Less Ebay and More Mel Bay"

THAT IS THE BEST THING I'VE HEARD/READ ALL YEAR. OH MY WILL THAT BE USED ON MY STUDENTS.....WOW!!!!!

THANK YOU FOR THAT ONE. SIMPLY BRILLIANT.

I'M STILL CHUCKLING HERE IN MY CUBE.
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EricT



Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Posts: 37
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I always smile and nod to myself when I read you signature, dkaplowitz. Great quote!

And as hundreds of people have said before me, great players will sound good through almost everything.
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really like "Less eBay, More Mel Bay" as well! Laughing

Believe me, I deal with people who seem more interested in gear than actually playing. You see them on the forums like Harmony Central, The Gear Page, Huge Racks, etc., all the time, but I actually deal with them in real life and it isn't easy. Why they would want to spend more time talking about gear on these forums than playing is way beyond me.

There have been people who've come in to the shop and they can barely play open chords and yet they tell me that the amps or pedals they're looking for must be point-to-point. Rolling Eyes Some just rattle off what they've read on the forums or the HC Reviews saying that's why they want some particular amp or whatever. Some won't even play because, obviously, they can't or know that they're not good and ask me or someone else to play for them while they listen.

They'll take up hours of my time on the phone picking my brain about tubes, capacitors, circuits, speakers, cables, pickups, woods on a guitar, etc. and then tell me that they're "torn" about what to get or even where to start. Very often, I'd like to tell them that perhaps they're better off getting a Marshall or a Fender at a local Guitar Center but they've already made up their mind that they're going to get a boutique piece of gear. Honestly speaking, I don't enjoy dealing with these types of customers. If they ask me what's going to give them a "brown sound" or the Jimi "purple sound", I just feel like walking away.

This kind of gear should be for someone who has a lot of experience and who has a fairly good idea of what kind of sound he wants. When they base everything on others' opinions, there is no end to the gear chase because it's all about what others say about a piece of gear and not what sounds good to you. A guy could be perfectly happy with something he has, but then he reads some HC reviews or stuff on the forum of some people saying that they don't like the high-mids or the flubby bottom and all of a sudden this guy will start hearing the same thing. Off to eBay it goes...

I'd say that most people do have a fairly good idea of what they want. But I think too many people care too much about what others think of what they have and how they sound. What matters is how it sounds to you since you're the one playing it. Gear is simply means to an end, but I do get the sense there are many who think more about gear than playing music. They don't practice or really push themselves to improve, so they buy "better" gear to hear the improvement. It's an endless cycle and it's a rather funny thing to observe.

What makes this rewarding, though, are the good players who really go out and play: the ones who understand that gear is just a means to expressing themselves better. They are the ones who'd be just as happy playing a stock Marshall or a Fender or even some cheap stuff that gets the job done. They understand that it's themselves who'll make any gear sound good or bad. They understand that the tone is in the hands, the mind and in the heart. They're just looking for some stuff that will translate their music the way they see fit.

I had a Hughes & Kettner modeling amp at home before I got into this business. If I didn't have this business, that's probably what I'd get for the home playing in a little bedroom and for occasional jams with friends. I may want a low-power tube amp as well, but I've really come to see that the player is 90% of the tone. You can sound great with anything at all. There are so many players out there who sound great with stock mainstream stuff or even really cheap gear. It's always the player in the end...
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shredrulez
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

great post, ed. especially from someone who sells high-end boutique gear. i know you care about tone and finding the right gear for the particular player. i'd imagine it's tough when someone comes in and has no idea what he or she wants and just wants to emulate someone else. you've treated me like a "star" from day one. i guess that means you see me as someone who can actually play somewhat? lol! Laughing i know that you're only interested in hooking up someone with a piece of gear that will work with that particular player. keep it up, man. you've got the best guitar gear shop on the planet because you look at things from the player's perspective!
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shredizalive



Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zappa said it best: "SHUT UP AND PLAY YOUR GUITAR!!"

Ed, that was a terrific post. Having spent a bit of 'time' working at a few local music stores, I've dealt with so many of these clowns asking to find the 'brown sound' (I always suggest they go to the bathroom at that point), or 'what wah will give me the identical tone to Clapton's Cream era tone'....uggggggh.

If truth be told, 90% of players wouldn't know the difference between a
Bogner or a Line 6 because it takes a bit of serious knowledge and actual experience playing through different gear to truely understand it's function and quality. I am not knocking a single person for using the gear they use because people like what they like, but I get very frustrated when I hear players, particularly at Guitar Center spend countless hours discussing how they SO prefer old vintage amps to that of any new amps being produced and how they 'must use' certain cables and speakers to get their 'sound'. Then they sit down and play 'Crazy Train'.......GOD HELP ME!!!!!! I would like to honestly say to them, "cut the shit, you have no idea what your talking about, other than the fact that you read about this or that on some forum or in GuitarOne Magazine".

I thought I sounded like hot shit when I was 15 playing through my Crate G120C with ALL the mids scooped out and the gain on 10 with tons of chorus and Metal Zone distortion pedal for that 'extra' crunch. I'm sure we all did something like this. But through the years you begin to understand what makes good tone and how to achieve that sound you hear in your head (or at least get as close to it as possible) and realize that no matter how much time you spend, or money you've spent, you always sound like YOU, and that is something alot of players still aren't comfortable with. Sure, Guthrie has gorgeous tone, plays like no-one else's business, and has his own 'fingerprints', and what I get out of him is INSPIRATION to be a better player. Not to copy his sound. That would be pointless.

I regress to this again, you sound like you sound because of your hands, your heart and your musical ability, and no matter HOW HARD you try to emulate your favorite player, you will never sound like them. Or worse, you might come real close and have to listen to the 'you sound just like....'

Who wants to hear that. It's so much more rewarding to do your own thing and do it well. I personally HATE Kurt Cobain's music, but I won't knock him because he was true to who he was and did his own thing. I always say this to people, "no one SUCKS, you just don't like what they do and that is totally fine".
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, yeah, I remember the days when I wanted the most insane over-the-top metal distortion sound possible with the mega-scooped mids. Laughing Lot of us go through that. It really does take many years of development and going through phases to find what you really like. I still like having a lot of gain on tap, but like Guthrie, I'd set the gain knob at around 2 o'clock and be able to back off with the guitar volume pot for lower-gain textures. Guthrie's clinic here in '04 really changed my perception about using amps and getting the most out of one with nothing but the guitar and his hands.
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Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
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M@



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 214
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha... all of these posts are great to read and really spot on!

One of my best sounding amps I had in the past was a nice and simple Fender Deluxe (and I've owned Marshalls, Mesa Boogies etc). It's really amazing what one can do with just some medium gain and controlling your guitar's volume pot.

Actually, speaking of Amp Modelling, these days I'm using Guitar Rig from Native Instruments on my laptop... Why?

Firstly, it sounds very good and is great fun to build up virtual rigs.

Secondly, I'm currently living in a small flat in Hong Kong - so buying a 50 watt head/stack combination just doesn't work out.

Finally, I'm getting into Pro-Tools and finding that using Guitar Rig as a plug-in inside Pro-Tools is a good way to dial up a reasonable tone quickly and burn to disk (no need to disturb my local neighbours by miking up an amp at 1 AM in the morning).

Man, I miss living back in Australia where you have plenty of space to crank it up!!! So gotta make the most of what you got, right? May consider getting a nice little combo for when I get back into some live jamming...

Or maybe the Zvex Nano Head with a simple 1 X 12 Cab, anyone tried those? They look fun and funky.



Cheers
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We used to carry the NanoHead but it didn't too well. Kind of small sounding... It's real cute, but it struck me as an expensive toy. The tone is good for what it is, but I found the overdrive kind of grainy. Believe me, even .5 watt can get fairly loud.
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.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
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