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Suhr's Single-Coil Holy Grail?

 
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:41 pm    Post subject: Suhr's Single-Coil Holy Grail? Reply with quote

Has Suhr found the Holy Grail that Strat makers have been searching for over 50 years?

http://online-discussion.com/Suhr/viewtopic.php?t=188

John had been telling me about this for awhile now but wanted to get some real-world feedback before going public with it. The V60LP, IMHO, is simply the best pure single-coil pickup I've heard and now it can be noiseless as well.

It's the dawn of a new era... Cool
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M@



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
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Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm.... nothing new here regarding noiseless single coil pickups - the era has dawned a long time ago. Smile Checkout the Kinmans from Australia (Apparently "Scott Henderson loves his new AVn-56 Mk-II set. Dec '04"):

http://www.kinman.com/

There's also some good general info about pickups on the above link. I heard from a rumour that Fender tried to steal Kinman's design early on for their own "noiseless" (read tone sucker) pickups...

I have Kinmans on my Roadhouse Strat, however I'd like to get some pickups that have a higher output, so may consider the Suhr's. Thanks for posting Ed.

BTW, anyone out there using Fralin's? What are they like? I'm considering to get some stuff from Callaham (particulary the stainless steel tremolo block to improve my tone, so may get the pickguard/Fralin pickup kit too...)

Just ordered a FerraGlide String Saving Steel Saddle System from Graphtech, so really hoping to improve the tone of my poor Strat Sad


And while we are talking about Aussie products, why not go for Fretwaves too!

http://www.fretwave.com/pages/vai.htm

However, will the real perfect guitar intonation system please stand up! Seems that Steve Vai also uses the Buzz Feiten system too.


Smile


Cheers


.
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a pure single-coil design without the noise. Stacked single-coils, dummy coils hidden underneath the pickguard, active designs, etc. have been around for decades. I've tried 'em all - Kinmans, Virtual Vintage sets, Fender Noiseless, EMG's, Lace Sensors and absolutely none of them sound like a pure vintage single-coil.

Fender has probably spent millions over the decades trying to come up with vintage-sounding single-coils without the noise with no luck. The stacked designs sound okay, but they lose some sparkle on the high-end and just don't have the life of truly great pure single-coil designs. Fender's VP of R&D, Dan Smith, even proclaimed that it's physically impossible to make it noiseless and retain the true single-coil sound. I actually heard him say that while I was there.

Apparently, this new Suhr design is not a stacked pickup or active electronics or a dummy coil, etc. which always affect the tonal purity of the classic single-coil sound. Apparently, it's some sort of a wiring system on the pickguard around the perimeter of the pickups cavity that eliminates the hum, so the pure single-coil pickups remain the same. And as far as I'm concerned, the Suhr V60LPs are the best sounding pure single-coils I've ever heard.

Consider that John Suhr custom-wound single-coils for Jeff Beck when he was at the Fender Custom Shop, that Scott Henderson and Mike Landau favor the V60LPs over anything else when it comes to pure single-coil pickups. But in a live club setting with flourescent lighting, refrigerators, and all kinds of other electrical gremlins you'd find there, they couldn't do with a pure single-coil set-up and that's why they'd use Kinmans or Virtual Vintage pickups as somewhat of a compromise. With other noiseless designs, you always lose some of that spank, quack, sparkle, and twang that made the Strat and Tele sounds so desirable. And that's why there are still so many who stick with the noisy pure single-coil pickups and put up with the noise.

But now, it seems that the pure single-coil sound can finally be had without the noise and that's what's so exciting about this development. People have replaced Lindy Fralins and Kinmans with the Suhr V60LPs and have been very happy with the results, so this news of getting that sound without the noise is a very, very big deal.
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M@



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your insights Ed (always very informed and helpful!)... However, let's agree to disagree on the point re the Kinmans (perhaps some of my Aussie pride is shining through. Smile

On saying that though, I'm VERY interested to check out the Suhrs. I'm looking for a good clean single-coil with a little more "oomph" and obviously less noise Smile Will definitely keep checking the website for production release date.


Cheers


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shredrulez
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

great news, ed! i agree that no current "noiseless" single-coil designs sound like the real thing. can't wait to try out this new system from suhr! Cool
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alexkhan



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M@ wrote:
Thanks for your insights Ed (always very informed and helpful!)... However, let's agree to disagree on the point re the Kinmans (perhaps some of my Aussie pride is shining through. Smile

On saying that though, I'm VERY interested to check out the Suhrs. I'm looking for a good clean single-coil with a little more "oomph" and obviously less noise Smile Will definitely keep checking the website for production release date.


Cheers


.


I'm not saying the Kinmans don't sound good. I think they sound great. I think the EMG-SA's sound great for a particular kind of sound (heck, that's what Gilmour uses!). Same with the DiMarzio Virtual Vintage pickups. I'm just saying they don't sound identical to pure vintage type of single-coils. The noiseless stacked designs often sound great; they just don't sound like pure single-coils.

I have not yet heard this new system from Suhr, but if John's excited, I'm certainly excited. When Scott's convinced and says that all of his guitars will now have John's new system, well, that says this system really works in preserving the classic single-coil tone without the noise, which has been elusive for many decades.
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Last edited by alexkhan on Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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M@



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I had EMG-SA's for a while and they sounded rather 'clynical' - definitely not your 'vintage' single coil sound.

So when will these new Suhr pickups be ready? I'll buy three!


Cheers


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M@



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh by the way Ed, what are the Suhr pickup models that Guthrie has on his Suhr that he uses on the Tone Merchant videos?


Cheers



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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M@ wrote:
Yeah, I had EMG-SA's for a while and they sounded rather 'clynical' - definitely not your 'vintage' single coil sound.

So when will these new Suhr pickups be ready? I'll buy three!


Cheers


.


The Suhr single-coil pickups don't change - they'll still be the same pickups. It's the new shielding system installed on the pickguard that will make it noiseless. I'm not sure when that will be ready but I'll keep you posted.
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alexkhan



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M@ wrote:
Oh by the way Ed, what are the Suhr pickup models that Guthrie has on his Suhr that he uses on the Tone Merchant videos?


Cheers



.



For both the Root Beer and Cherry SB Suhr Standards:

Bridge - DSH+
Middle - V60LP
Neck - DSV

Here is how the pickups are wired:



It's a very versatile setup with a minimum of fuss on the guitar. He uses the middle setting (the two outside coils of the humbuckers) for a quasi-Tele-in-between sound and for "Rhode Island Shred".
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M@



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanx! That Position 2A is an interesting combination with the front humbucker split, middle + rear humbucker... wonder what sounds that can pull out?

Is the middle pickup 'reverse wound' for hum cancelling?



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alexkhan



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M@ wrote:
Thanx! That Position 2A is an interesting combination with the front humbucker split, middle + rear humbucker... wonder what sounds that can pull out?

Is the middle pickup 'reverse wound' for hum cancelling?



Cheers


Not too much different than just the neck HB split and the middle. Perhaps a tad more presence...

Yes, the middle pup is RWRP, but it depends on whether the split coil setting "matches" the middle in cancelling the hum.
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kabuki



Joined: 17 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have *extensively* compared both the Kinmans and V60LPs in the same guitar, a Suhr Classic. The only thing I will admit about the Kinmans is that they sound better than Virtual Vintages. I am also about to mount a set of Tele V60LPs in a project swamp ash body with a fat Warmoth neck. If they sound as good as the Classic's V60s then my search is over.

Suhr nailed it, hands down.

Ed - probably gonna need another set soon. I'll call you. How's it going? Been a while...
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alexkhan



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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kabuki wrote:
I have *extensively* compared both the Kinmans and V60LPs in the same guitar, a Suhr Classic. The only thing I will admit about the Kinmans is that they sound better than Virtual Vintages. I am also about to mount a set of Tele V60LPs in a project swamp ash body with a fat Warmoth neck. If they sound as good as the Classic's V60s then my search is over.

Suhr nailed it, hands down.

Ed - probably gonna need another set soon. I'll call you. How's it going? Been a while...


Hey Bob, good to see you here again. Glad you're digging the V60LPs. Now imagine that without any noise whatsoever! Suhr is telling me that the system is now quieter than regular humbuckers. Shocked

Did you get the new version of the Jan 19 show DVD yet? See you around!
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Bruno R.



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ed,
do u have any idea how I can order Suhr pups?
I live in Belgium Cool
Any advice would be more then welcome!
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