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Guthrie's hands
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James W



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:11 pm    Post subject: Guthrie's hands Reply with quote

Let us discuss Guthrie's hands. Cool

What are they like? Are his fingers unusual shape or size? etc.


Laughing


... Love James XXX
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great topic! Laughing

Overall, they look normal, but they are fairly large for a guy his size. His fingers are long, but not as long as someone like Vai's. Size and length-wise, I'd say 7.5 on a scale of 1 to 10. Vai's would be like 8.5. Buckethead would be like 9.

They do look they were built for guitar playing, like the legs of a sprinter or a cheetah. There is grace, power, and efficiency in the movements of his fingers, that personally speaking, are the most beautiful and exhilarating to watch of any players I've seen to date and I've seen an awful lot. The last player who struck me as having that sort of combination of movements all over the neck was early-Yngwie. I have a video of Yngwie with Alcatrazz in '84 and that's still one of my favorite all-time guitar videos.

Now, we're just talking aesthetics of watching someone's fingers fly around the neck. This has nothing to do with musicality and stuff that really matters.Wink
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James W



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:10 pm    Post subject: Hey... thanks for responding Ed! Reply with quote

I guess so... still it is interesting.

Looking at Guthrie in full flow his fingers and hands look so relaxed flexable, and pliant... and at the same time strong... like a gymnast... Also, watching Jason Becker's video, not only does he have huge hands and long lanky fingers, they look incredibly loose and flexible...


J
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art



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So far the most impressive hand technique I have ever seen belonged to Shawn Lane. Watching him playing looks like a photograph with only the most minimal hand movement happening. And only in very rare instances do his fingers bunch up (noteably his pinky is under great control, which is something 95+% guitarists don't have).

Yngwie is also very good.

I feel that Guthrie's fingers could be more efficient in movement, but it's not like it would make much difference.

Personally, I have had problems with bad technique, meaning lots of tension and tendonitis. Because of this I have worked very hard to achieving 'good technique' with fingers not flying, and being as relaxed as possible. While this is necissary for me to play, it is evidently not for Guthrie.
In class this week we were doing 8 finger tapping, and I asked guthrie if he had any advice as I found that it caused my right shoulder to start tensing up. Fortunately for him the closest thing to this kind of problem was when writing the Creative guitar books, which were solved with books under the feet for adjusted posture.
His advice was simply to not tense up (something which if you tend to be quite a tense person, -e.g. me, so is my father- is not simple, and requires a LOT of work) and make all movement come from the elbow onwards. I then observed him, and while his fingers bunched up, his shoulders and upper arms remained near motionless.

I feel that it has a lot to do with the kind of person you are, I tend to worry and over-think things, as well as being self conscious, especially when playing guitar whereas Guthrie is a really relaxed kind of person, especially when playing.

I'm almost glad I had problems with my arms as it forced me to achieve a better technique, and helped me in learning to solve a lot of problems for myself, becoming more aware of what I'm doing, it was like having an eye opener. I say almost, because I'd still rather have been able to just practice away and have had no problems.
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James W



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:12 pm    Post subject: Response to art... Reply with quote

I understand what you mean, man I have had a similar problem to that in the past. Now I can relax and barely take my fingers off the finger board, I just need to raise them a bit more for legato playing. I tahs made fast playing more effortless.


... Love James XXX
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
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Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I didn't think we were just talking about efficiency so that's why I brought up other matters of movements. I don't think Guthrie ever really tries to play as fast as he possibly can for the sake of speed. There are guys who play with more efficient movements - as you say, it doesn't look like they're doing anything at all. Danny Joe Carter is a good example of that as well besides Lane. I was talking about the movements from a more visual aesthetic point of view.
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art



Joined: 19 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess then it's all subjective, I do think the way Guthrie plays looks great, but because of the route I have been forced to take, I have come to appreciate certain styles of movement.
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M@



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 214
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know where you are coming from Art... I am by nature a pretty tense person (also inherited a bit from my late father), so it is important to be aware of that so you know how to balance things. In fact, I had mild tendonitis problems when I was teaching (about 13 years ago now) and it was one of the factors why I chose a different career (also with better earning potential I can now afford the gear I want/need)...

However, these days I am quite relaxed about it all because my mindset is that I play guitar for fun, enjoyment, exploration, growth, creativity and relaxation (i.e. I'm not busting my guts/fingers to be the best guitarist or to make a living from it). As a result, my playing has actually improved immensly!

So, can I suggest things like Yoga, Mediation and the occasional Beer with your buddies... you will notice vast improvements! Wink


Cheers
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M@



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
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Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops... meant to say MEDITATION instead of Mediation (I guess Mediation might help when discussing your fees with an agent!)
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guthrie uses both of his hands to vary the dynamics a lot and to incorporate various techniques. This has been discussed on another thread, but Guthrie will tap or just use his left-hand to sound louder with more attack than most people's picking. I so vividly remember him warming up before the clinic of last year and he was just doing left-hand legato runs with the guitar unplugged and it was way louder than most guys picking on an unplugged guitar.Shocked His unplugged left-hand legato runs filled the entire room and we were looking at him in a state of disbelief. That kind of volume (and in turn, the amount of gain being produced going into the amp) isn't going to happen with legato runs with the minimal hand movements just barely skating and fretting the strings. So it's part of Guthrie's style to literally bash the strings onto the frets although it doesn't look like he's bashing them at all.
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M@



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
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Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... bashing without bashing... sounds very ZEN to me...
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M@ wrote:
Hmmm... bashing without bashing... sounds very ZEN to me...


Well, Guthrie is very ZEN without being ZEN! Wink
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M@



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 214
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hehe... "ZEN without being ZEN!" - I like it!

BTW, let me come to the defence of Steve Vai. I do agree his playing is becoming a bit stale, yet I believe his compositional abilities far out-strip most of his contemporaries... Let's see what Guthrie has to offer on his long-awaited CD.

Oh yeah, and one more thing:

"Real men don't need hair-bands to mute their strings when tapping"

(cheeky!)


Laughing


.
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Sgt Baker



Joined: 10 May 2005
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Location: Pittsburgh Pennsylvania USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If any of you haven't seen Allan Holdsworth play yet, he may have the smoothest looking technique I have seen. He makes nothing look difficult when he plays and he may play the most insane lines of anyone.
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RD



Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 293

PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sgt Baker wrote:
If any of you haven't seen Allan Holdsworth play yet, he may have the smoothest looking technique I have seen. He makes nothing look difficult when he plays and he may play the most insane lines of anyone.


I haven't actually... But is he also able to look effortlessly when stiking every single note at all speeds? I've heard some samples but it sounded mostly like hammers/pulls to me...
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