Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Posts: 8 Location: new zealand
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:15 am Post subject: wonderful slippery thing - tapping lick from hell
Could somebody who has the april issue of GT (110) please tab out the insane tapping lick from hell part (fast, tappin/sweep picking part in the upper register) i dont need the whole tab, just the tapping part, if anybody could be so kind then thank you very much
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:37 am Post subject:
James W wrote:
... Oh yes, and all of the lick is tapped. Guthrie is not an aficionado of sweeps, unlike so many so-called shredders!
Guthrie invented tap-sweeping or tap-skipping!
But seriously, Guthrie could sweep with the best of 'em. He uses it very sparingly to accent or start certain phrases. When you do see him or hear him do it, it's amongst the smoothest I've heard. It doesn't sound all clacky like so many shredders sound when they do it. It's such a dumb cliche sound - major and minor triad arpeggios swept up and down the neck mindlessly like a kid saying, "Look, ma! I can pop a wheelie on my bike!"
The way Guthrie sweeps, it's very musical and part of the phrasing. He rarely does it and prefers tap-skipping across multiple strings like this lick, but the fact of the matter is that the technique always serves a musical purpose. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
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Joined: 19 Sep 2004 Posts: 4 Location: Norwegian, living in Zürich Switzerland
Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:17 pm Post subject:
alexkhan wrote:
James W wrote:
... Oh yes, and all of the lick is tapped. Guthrie is not an aficionado of sweeps, unlike so many so-called shredders!
Guthrie invented tap-sweeping or tap-skipping!
But seriously, Guthrie could sweep with the best of 'em. He uses it very sparingly to accent or start certain phrases. When you do see him or hear him do it, it's amongst the smoothest I've heard. It doesn't sound all clacky like so many shredders sound when they do it. It's such a dumb cliche sound - major and minor triad arpeggios swept up and down the neck mindlessly like a kid saying, "Look, ma! I can pop a wheelie on my bike!"
The way Guthrie sweeps, it's very musical and part of the phrasing. He rarely does it and prefers tap-skipping across multiple strings like this lick, but the fact of the matter is that the technique always serves a musical purpose.
Sweeping doesn't sound any more 'dumb' than Guthrie's tapping style. Both have a very recognizable or, if you will, clichéd sound, just like most other techniques. Also, Guthrie's tapping is just as much arpeggio-based as most sweeping. It just happens to lend itself more to extended harmonies, e.g. 9 or 11 chords, as these facilitate comfortable fingerings.
Don't misunderstand me, this is no attack on Guthrie, just an observation on the silliness of this kind of snobbery. There are players who can sound brilliant with sweeping, as well as ones who make it sound like the cheesiest circus trick in the world. Similarly, you will find players who make tapped arpeggios sound tasteful and musical, whereas others implement it only as a forced gimmick. At the end of the day, it has nothing to do with what technique you use, nor what pattern--if any--, just how well it fits in the overall musical context.
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:25 am Post subject:
aiwass wrote:
alexkhan wrote:
James W wrote:
... Oh yes, and all of the lick is tapped. Guthrie is not an aficionado of sweeps, unlike so many so-called shredders!
Guthrie invented tap-sweeping or tap-skipping!
But seriously, Guthrie could sweep with the best of 'em. He uses it very sparingly to accent or start certain phrases. When you do see him or hear him do it, it's amongst the smoothest I've heard. It doesn't sound all clacky like so many shredders sound when they do it. It's such a dumb cliche sound - major and minor triad arpeggios swept up and down the neck mindlessly like a kid saying, "Look, ma! I can pop a wheelie on my bike!"
The way Guthrie sweeps, it's very musical and part of the phrasing. He rarely does it and prefers tap-skipping across multiple strings like this lick, but the fact of the matter is that the technique always serves a musical purpose.
Sweeping doesn't sound any more 'dumb' than Guthrie's tapping style. Both have a very recognizable or, if you will, clichéd sound, just like most other techniques. Also, Guthrie's tapping is just as much arpeggio-based as most sweeping. It just happens to lend itself more to extended harmonies, e.g. 9 or 11 chords, as these facilitate comfortable fingerings.
Don't misunderstand me, this is no attack on Guthrie, just an observation on the silliness of this kind of snobbery. There are players who can sound brilliant with sweeping, as well as ones who make it sound like the cheesiest circus trick in the world. Similarly, you will find players who make tapped arpeggios sound tasteful and musical, whereas others implement it only as a forced gimmick. At the end of the day, it has nothing to do with what technique you use, nor what pattern--if any--, just how well it fits in the overall musical context.
Obviously, I was talking about the shredders who use sweeping as a gimmick to show off how fast they can execute arpeggio exercises than really saying anything musically. When you think about it, there are tons of players who implement both kind of techniques only as the cheesiest circus trick or a forced gimmick as you mentioned yourself.
Of course, Guthrie plays arpeggios as well, but as I mentioned, only sparingly for phrasing purposes that accent or embellish melodic ideas. What sounds boring and just like exercises is playing arpeggios that only outline the notes in the chords of the progression. I see so many guys just play the notes in a chord really fast but there'd often be no tension and release kind of creative development going on. That's what we're bagging on here. Obviously, some guys do it great and Gambale is awesome, but personally, I can't stand his tone. I love the way Greg Howe and Brett Garsed use arpeggios. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
totally agree with ed. i have no idea what aiwass is getting at here. ed made it clear that it was about the musicality and putting the techniques to use to get a musical statement across. the truth is that most guys who have good technique tend to put technique ahead of any meaningful musicality and real feel.
Joined: 19 Sep 2004 Posts: 4 Location: Norwegian, living in Zürich Switzerland
Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:12 pm Post subject:
All I'm getting at is that you're making it sound like Guthrie's tapping licks and playing arpeggios are two different things, and that one is more musical than the other, when in reality, most of Guthrie's tapping licks (for instance the one in Wonderful Slippery Thing) are also just straight arpeggios.
Anyway, it seems that we're basically on the same page. I just got a bit frustrated because I think a lot of the dudes reading what you wrote might get the wrong idea about a few things (not to say that you yourself have the wrong idea).
The way Guthrie sweeps, it's very musical and part of the phrasing.
yup... was it you who mentioned Allan Holdsworth's sweeps? ... he must be the smoothest sweeper... better than Gambale IMO probably not as technically good at sweeps, but musically better. Which is what counts, of course.
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:19 am Post subject:
aiwass wrote:
All I'm getting at is that you're making it sound like Guthrie's tapping licks and playing arpeggios are two different things, and that one is more musical than the other, when in reality, most of Guthrie's tapping licks (for instance the one in Wonderful Slippery Thing) are also just straight arpeggios.
Anyway, it seems that we're basically on the same page. I just got a bit frustrated because I think a lot of the dudes reading what you wrote might get the wrong idea about a few things (not to say that you yourself have the wrong idea).
Peace.
Understood. The thing about guys sweeping arpeggios is that it often doesn't sound smooth - actually rather abrasive and quite often sloppy. I'm talking about this from the perspective that I've been managing a music store and see all kinds of players day-in and day-out. I wasn't talking about the really good established players out there with internationally recognized albums.
But even proficient players tend to sound cliched with the sweep-picking thing at times - it seems the swept arpeggios are thrown in to impress than really have a musical purpose. When you hear the kid shredders do it on and on with the other strings all ringing out with a lot of distortion at the shop, you really come to hate that sound. It just makes me want to walk out.
I do think the tapped arpeggios sound smoother than sweep-picking. It's still the musical application and the choice of notes that matters whether one is using either technique. Personally, I really don't like the sound of sweep-picking. It produces a certain kind of a sound that's annoying to my ears. The ones who do it well don't sound like they're sweep-picking. It may as well sound like strict alternate-picking across all the strings.
Allan Holdsworth is a great example of that. I was surprised by how much he actually picks and how often he swept across the strings with the pick. But he still sounded as smooth as just doing hammer-ons with his left hand. If you were just listening to him, you wouldn't know what technique he was applying where and when. Allan picks a lot more than people think.
Personally, I just like the sound of Guthrie playing arpeggios with tapping technique skipping strings than most guys sweeping across them. As mentioned before, it's the choice of notes and how he applies them in a musical context that's more important than what particular technique he uses, but tapping tends to sound smoother and cover a wider range of notes faster and more efficiently. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:27 am Post subject:
James W wrote:
alexkhan wrote:
The way Guthrie sweeps, it's very musical and part of the phrasing.
yup... was it you who mentioned Allan Holdsworth's sweeps? ... he must be the smoothest sweeper... better than Gambale IMO probably not as technically good at sweeps, but musically better. Which is what counts, of course.
J
Yes, Allan sweeps a lot. That's what I noticed the last few times I saw him at TM late last year and that really surprised me. As mentioned on the above post, his sweeping is as smooth as his left-hand legato. The great ones don't draw attention to the techniques being used. It's just about the flow of notes.
Gambale is a monster player for sure, but his bad sound and the way he applies his technique seems to overwhelm the musical content from what I've seen of him. He knows what he's doing and does some very advanced and sophisticated stuff, but I don't know. It doesn't have the depth and the smoothness of what Allan is doing. I tried hard to get into Gambale but he just hasn't clicked with me like Allan, Brett Garsed and Greg Howe have. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 Posts: 214 Location: Hong Kong
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:38 am Post subject:
Yeah, Frank Gambale would have one of the WORST tones I've ever heard!!!
I like Holdsworth, however each time I've seen him live in intimate small-club settings I've left early out of boredom (don't get me wrong, I've got a good ear, appreciate great playing and have followed Holdsworth since the early 80's, just that stylistically it meshed into one big legato-gelato icecream thing)...
(Apologies for such a negative sounding post!)
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