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The Tired Old "Feel vs. Technique" Debate

 
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:41 pm    Post subject: The Tired Old "Feel vs. Technique" Debate Reply with quote

It's funny to see how some people are so quick to dismiss players with great technique (such as Guthrie) as lacking feel and taste. It's actually happened more than a few times when I showed videos of Guthrie to some people. "Yeah, he's got great chops, but he doesn't have the feel." Rolling Eyes They'll watch maybe 5 minutes of it and go, "It's all speed. No tasteful phrasing or down-to-earth feel." Rolling Eyes Mad "He sounds like all these other shredders like Satriani and Vai. They can play but have no feel." Rolling Eyes

To me, the issue is not even debatable. When jazz pianists and classical violinists throw more notes at you than a horde of locusts, it's "art" and it's great, but when great rock guitarists play fast it's "lacking in feel". I get so tired of reading this over and over again in so many other guitar-oriented forums. If they say, "Well, the music and the playing just isn't my cup of tea.", fine. But how can they say that it lacks feel or taste only because there's good technique involved?

Personally, I think Yngwie plays with a lot of feel. His playing can get kind of repetitive at times, but I just don't buy into the constant criticism that his playing lacks feel. And Satch or Vai for that matter. They play with great feel as far as I'm concerned. And how about Shawn Lane? People like to criticize him a lot for playing so fast. Lane has played some of the most beautiful slow feel-laden pieces I have ever heard, but so many are quick to dismiss him as just being a "speed freak".

I suppose some things will never change. I'm sure there has been this kind of talk since the days of Bach or earlier. We all know the stories about composers like Mozart and Beethoven. They sure played or composed a lot of notes. Charlie Parker was frequently criticized in his day. The truth is that there are so many out there who play purely for speed's sake and I suppose they're the ones dragging down the ones with both technique and feel, taste, musicality, etc. All I know, and I'm sure all of you agree, technique and feel (along with other factors of great musicianship) are not mutually exclusive. Guthrie is as good of an example as any! Very Happy
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Donnie B.



Joined: 13 Sep 2004
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Location: Chula Vista, CA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 12:25 am    Post subject: Re: The Tired Old "Feel vs. Technique" Debate Reply with quote

alexkhan wrote:
And how about Shawn Lane? People like to criticize him a lot for playing so fast. Lane has played some of the most beautiful slow feel-laden pieces I have ever heard.


And some of his faster stuff is also quite beautiful in its own right. I'm of the opinion that players / people who are quick to dismiss fast playing all have undersized anatomy of some sort......... Laughing Laughing Laughing

Really though, don't get me started on this topic, it'll be worse than the Corea thread Shocked
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alexkhan



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 1:15 am    Post subject: Re: The Tired Old "Feel vs. Technique" Debate Reply with quote

Donnie B. wrote:
alexkhan wrote:
And how about Shawn Lane? People like to criticize him a lot for playing so fast. Lane has played some of the most beautiful slow feel-laden pieces I have ever heard.


And some of his faster stuff is also quite beautiful in its own right. I'm of the opinion that players / people who are quick to dismiss fast playing all have undersized anatomy of some sort......... Laughing Laughing Laughing

Really though, don't get me started on this topic, it'll be worse than the Corea thread Shocked


You're absolutely right. Lane was a special musician. Speed can actually add a lot of beauty and contrast to the slower portions of a piece of music.

I know what you mean about this topic. Just venting here a bit. Don't know what more else I could add here. Would like to get some others' thoughts.
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:47 am    Post subject: Guthrie is Becoming Notorious! Reply with quote

I was quickly browing through this tired same ole thread about "musicality vs. technique" in this forum and I see this:

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52689&perpage=15&pagenumber=4

Shocked

Some "shred hater" lops in Guthrie along with Yngwie, Satch and Vai! Man, am I doing a good job of promoting Guthrie out there or what!?!?! Cool Laughing
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Carlo



Joined: 13 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Kronosonic articulated this debate very well, imo

http://www.station185.com/kronoson/kronosonic/papers/Praxis%20Papers/notes%20on%20technique.pdf
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
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Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carlo wrote:
I think Kronosonic articulated this debate very well, imo

http://www.station185.com/kronoson/kronosonic/papers/Praxis%20Papers/notes%20on%20technique.pdf


I'm going to have to post this article in that thread. I remember reading that one before. Haven't been to that site in a while. Nice to see it growing and well organized. Guthrie needs to be featured in there as well. But he really needs to get his first solo album out.

http://kronosonic.com/
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alexkhan



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, here's another example of Guthrie playing slow and tastefully:

http://www.online-discussion.com/GuthrieGovan/Photos/I_Didn't_Do_It.mp3
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frankus



Joined: 13 Sep 2004
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Location: Chelmsford/Arachnipus

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kinda think anyone who thinks Guthrie is all technique simply hasn't heard him play. There's a definite sense of fun in some and a Jeff Beck-like intensity in more emotive tunes. I say Jeff Beck like as I'd class 10 on the emotive scale as the violins in "The Sea and Sinbad's Ship" from Rimsky Korsakov's Sheherezade (I've only got an old Naxos CD)
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Will



Joined: 09 Oct 2004
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldn't read that gear page forum for more than two pages it was so mind torturing.

Some people drive me crazy.


Its a large piece of wood with strings on... now just go and bloody play it and shut up!!
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frankus



Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 1100
Location: Chelmsford/Arachnipus

PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will wrote:
I couldn't read that gear page forum for more than two pages it was so mind torturing.

Some people drive me crazy.

Its a large piece of wood with strings on... now just go and bloody play it and shut up!!


Rolling Eyes hmm page 1 has invoked definite rage and feelings of bitterness toward my fellow man, I'll just check out page 2.. I never really could believe the Hulk's pants didn't rip when he changed, I must find out for myself. Laughing

I think a guitar can be a really beautiful artifact, I feel a sting sometimes when I hear how much people pay for them, but it's where their priorities lie.

The physics of the components is fun too, it might take itself too seriously, with some processes being akin to Haitian voodoo, but would you buy a wax dipped pickup from a guy who dunked it in a vat and whipped it out? You'd want the whole "oil of aphrodite and the dust of the grand wazoo" schtick or you'd feel gyp'd, you'd expect it for less money Shocked
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shredrulez
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, what a tiring subject it really is! Mad that forum is populated by jealous old farts. why even bother with that place? Evil or Very Mad let those bald-headed men wax lyrical and nostalgic about their old bygones. Rolling Eyes what they don't want to acknowledge is that guthrie can play with more feel and taste than most of their tired ole (and dead) heroes put together. couldn't care less... as you like to say, ed, it's the future that matters and guthrie defines the future.
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