Guthrie Govan Discussion

[Psydelik]

Though I don't really like talking about technique all too much, I need to ask, were you as flabbergasted as I was when I heard Guthrie never really practiced technique strictly, and just jammed? I was shocked and confused, because how the hell can someone get INSANE technique without practicing it? Guys like Cooley and Michael Angelo have devoted an insane amount of time towards technique, and it clearly shows, but Guthrie never did and he's way up there in terms of technique. Never quite got it. Maybe there IS such a thing as natural talent? Who knows.

[alexkhan]

There's no reason not to talk about technique. There's nothing wrong with playing super fast if that's what the music calls for. I don't think there's any reason to be apologetic about having or liking great technique, insane speed, over-the-top playing or shredding or whatever you want to call it. I get so sick of these blues snobs or jazz nazi's who denigrate rock players with great technique - whether it's Vai, Petrucci, Satch, Yngwie, Gilbert and Guthrie as well, of course. I'm not going to be apologetic about liking Guthrie and other "shredders" with great technique. It's become tiring.

Anyway, getting back to the subject on hand, the thing that struck me about Guthrie is that he indeed didn't sound like someone who practiced scales and arpeggios to the click of a metronome so many hours per day over so many years. Some guys really do sound like that's exactly what they did. They sound mechanical - guitar playing robots. I'm sure some will say Guthrie sounds like that, too, but I certainly didn't. But Guthrie surely looked into the mechanics of what someone like Yngwie, Vai, Satch, Gilbert, Becker, etc. were doing in the 80's and figured 'em out by playing along and then analyzing what was behind all the stuff going on.

I really think that's where the musicality comes in. You're having fun getting into the music, not just executing the sequence of notes physically at certain speeds or progressively increasing that speed by few beats per minute. There's no doubt that Guthrie did practice countless hours but did so by jamming along and figuring things out on his own and how they all fit in. You read the Creative Guitar books and his columns on GT magazines and Guthrie clearly knows theory inside out. But he balances that type of cerebral analysis with good ole intuition - gut feel, if you get my drift.

Obviously, talent is very important. You can practice running 8 hours a day but you're not going to run the 100m dash under 11 seconds. You can practice throwing baseball all of your life and will most likely never throw it at 100 mph. Some of the physical aspects of virtuosic musicianship cannot be attained by practice alone, but the good news is that, ultimately, music isn't sports. One has to find a way to work within one's limitations and talents. Many still consider Jeff Beck the greatest electric guitar player alive. Jeff Beck was never known as a speed demon or having outrageous chops. Look at technique as a mere means to an end, my friend. In that regard, it's actually an interesting subject to talk about.
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Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
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[Psydelik]

I am in no way being apologetic about the whole technique issue, or liking shredders (As a matter of fact, my biggest influences are 'shredders') I just think it's a sensitive subject, and I've seen a lot of fights break out because of the whole 'feel vs. speed' issue..which in my opinion, is the stupidest thing EVER.

Anyhow, I'm still not quite sure about the way his technique was developed. Are you saying he just applied everything in a musical context, and just let the speed fall into place? To me, that seems quite weird, because I don't think their's anything particularly exhilarating or expressive about running a scale/arpeggio really slowly over a track but, that's probably not what you're getting at.

[alexkhan]

[alexkhan]

Been thinking about getting one of these for myself!


_________________
Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.

[Cass679]

i think i'll have one aswell
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"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him a spinal cord would fully suffice." - Albert Einstein

[alexkhan]

[Ant711UK]

I had one of those and It really worked! I played and sounded like a real demon but the band made me sell it! It had something to do with me instantly putting on 4 stone in weight, turning up in tight leather pants screaming ‘you’ve unleashed the f#cking fury, Let’s Rock’ didn’t go down too well at the last wedding gig I played.

[Psydelik]

[RD]

I read an interview with Guthrie on alloutguitar.com. He said that he always tried to find out why something didn't work. So he analysed the movements until he found the problem, then corrected that flaw.

That is part of the practice thing too you know....

And about talent.... How can you say that talent is the reason why someone plays so well if you don't know E-X-A-C-T-L-Y what that person has done to get so good?

YOU CAN'T

You don't have the info necessary to decide whether it's talent or more practice. And even when you get info straight from Guthrie, you weren't there with him all these years, so you still don't know. It's very likely that Guthrie doesn't realize how much time and effort he put into it because he was simply not focussed on counting time during guitar playing & practising. Especially when he sees it as 'fun'.

Also: what is practice? Lot's of guitarists think about a metronome and eternal repetition when they hear the word 'practice', but that's a very skewed way of looking at a musician's life if you ask me.

[Wickedpicker]

There is no doubt that simple dexterity plays a major roll in speed. I remember typing class from high school and I maxed out at 55 wpm. Other kids were 80-100 with no errors. None of them ever wrote a memorable poem or novel as far as i know.

I watched an interview with Metheny not long ago and he talked about how much of his playing was listening. He puts himself in the roll of listener during performances and he is able to critically hear himself in the context of the piece and the overall band performance. He simply thinks about what he wants to hear next in his playing and plays it. I would guess Guthrie is much the same. These guys have all the dexterity in the world but that's not the key to their greatness and I think that is what the snobs in their small minded way get upset about. I am far more astounded at the idea of being able to listen to myself in the context of the song and spontaneously compose to fit my ear.
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It goes to eleven!