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Guthrie Trying Out A New Pick
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redhandedhaze



Joined: 26 Apr 2008
Posts: 25
Location: Alfred, NY

PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alexkhan wrote:

Cool. Which model and gauge did you get?


I got a few of the little jazzers, I got a few of the "tuff-tone" ones so I could try out some different options without paying $100--All of the tuff-tone picks come in a heavy guage, I got one with grip holes, one standard no holes no bevel, and one with a bevel. I'm probably going to have a couple extra picks once I figure out which one I like best if anyone is wanting to try them out
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MissMisstreater



Joined: 04 Aug 2008
Posts: 327

PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

one day people will learn that jazz IIIs suck donkey dick

get yourself an ibanez H16 (i play red gilbert ones as the material on the blue ones seems odd)

theyre cheap as chips, and dont have a bevel (which IMHO slows you down as it creates friction as you "brush" the string) great tone...

my only complaint is that they arent durable, they die on me after 1-2 days whats the life on these picks like ED?
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redhandedhaze



Joined: 26 Apr 2008
Posts: 25
Location: Alfred, NY

PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright my picks arrived yesterday! The little jazzer is the perfect shape--I usually have to file down my Jazz III's so they aren't so pointy, but the little jazzer is already the perfect shape. I got an extra heavy one--its pretty damn heavy and I like it. You really do have to try these things out to understand how good they feel. It just brings you closer to your guitar, the pick makes me feel like I have more control over the voice I give my guitar.

I have gotten so used to this one Jazz III pick I was using that it is a little harder to play up to full tempo with my new red bear pick, but in a couple days it probably won't be a problem

I also got a "tuff-tone" one with a bevel and gripholes--I filed it a little bit to get the bevel a little more rounded, but I don't think I like the manmade bevel, I just like the regular one. I like the gripholes a lot, they aren't distracting at all and they do the job. I'm probably not going to keep this one, i'll ship it out for free to the first person who makes a request
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've tried a bunch now (different shapes, gauges, with or without bevel, with or without the grip holes) and I've settled on the Big Jazzer and Lil' Jazzer Heavy with no bevel and the grip holes, even though I'm fine with the no holes as well. I don't really see the necessity of the bevels, especially on the pointed tips of the Jazzer picks. I found the XH a little too thick for me. I normally like the thickness in the 1.2~1.5 mm range. I really like the Classic II in the Light gauge for playing the acoustic. The Classic II shape is really nice as well. I used to play with the Fender XH and the Dunlop Delrin 1.5mm picks for a long while but I had them shave down a bit and the Red Bear Classic II is exactly the size I like for the more traditional flatpick. And after weeks of playing, these picks still look brand new without a single scratch.
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

redhandedhaze wrote:
Alright my picks arrived yesterday! The little jazzer is the perfect shape--I usually have to file down my Jazz III's so they aren't so pointy, but the little jazzer is already the perfect shape. I got an extra heavy one--its pretty damn heavy and I like it. You really do have to try these things out to understand how good they feel. It just brings you closer to your guitar, the pick makes me feel like I have more control over the voice I give my guitar.

I have gotten so used to this one Jazz III pick I was using that it is a little harder to play up to full tempo with my new red bear pick, but in a couple days it probably won't be a problem

I also got a "tuff-tone" one with a bevel and gripholes--I filed it a little bit to get the bevel a little more rounded, but I don't think I like the manmade bevel, I just like the regular one. I like the gripholes a lot, they aren't distracting at all and they do the job. I'm probably not going to keep this one, i'll ship it out for free to the first person who makes a request


Glad you got the picks and that you're digging 'em. I really like the Lil' Jazzer shape myself. As I said in my earlier post, the XH was just a little too thick and found the H gauge just right for me. You're absolutely right about being "closer" to the guitar. I feel like I'm hearing much more of the wood resonating than the strings vibrating and I also feel the woods more as well. It sounds real full yet crystal clear, doesn't it? Normally, really heavy or thick picks tend to be dull sounding but the Red Bears have that snappy and clear attack and slides off real smooth afterwards.

Another employee at Suhr got himself a few Red Bear Tuff-Tone picks as well and gave me one to try out for a day. It's very nice as well. I've got a H gauge with the bevels to try out and it's really good, but I'm totally spoiled by the regular Red Bear Jazzers in the H gauge now. As for the speed bevel, I can see that being more useful on the acoustic guitar with its thick wound strings. I prefer the beveled Classic II L gauge for picking single-note lines on the acoustic as you get much less pick noise. The Red Bear picks are really great. I can't say enough good things about 'em.

Guthrie should be getting a bunch to try out pretty soon. He was telling me that the Big Jazzer seems like the way forward for him. He's got the M, H, and XH gauges with and without the bevels to try out. I sent him a few Lil' Jazzers as well and a Classic II L gauge so that he can try it with an acoustic and for rhythm playing in the studio. Besides numerous guitars, amps and pedals, now Guthrie is going to have an assortment of these Red Bear picks to use on his next album. Man, the next album had better be good, real good! Laughing
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Nocturne



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it very funny: I can't seem to choose between a large pick and a small one. I used to play with those yellow Dunlop ones (I think it's 1 mm or something). Then I changed to the Steve Vai signature plectrums (not because of Steve, I tried a whole bunch of plectrums and decided those played the most comfortable for me).

Of course after seeing Guthrie play I had to try those Dunlop Jazzers, I played the past half year with Dunlop Jazz III's. But now I find myself going back to the Vai signature picks I have. For solo sounds the Jazz III's are great, but I don't think they kind of resonate that well with my guitar for the chord-work (Ibanez s470 dxqm). The Vai ones do this better though they tend to let more bass and mid frequencies get through, which makes my guitar end up a little bit lost in the mix.

Anyone else have this problem with choosing between small and large picks?
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nocturne wrote:
I find it very funny: I can't seem to choose between a large pick and a small one. I used to play with those yellow Dunlop ones (I think it's 1 mm or something). Then I changed to the Steve Vai signature plectrums (not because of Steve, I tried a whole bunch of plectrums and decided those played the most comfortable for me).

Of course after seeing Guthrie play I had to try those Dunlop Jazzers, I played the past half year with Dunlop Jazz III's. But now I find myself going back to the Vai signature picks I have. For solo sounds the Jazz III's are great, but I don't think they kind of resonate that well with my guitar for the chord-work (Ibanez s470 dxqm). The Vai ones do this better though they tend to let more bass and mid frequencies get through, which makes my guitar end up a little bit lost in the mix.

Anyone else have this problem with choosing between small and large picks?


You might want to look into the Dunlop Jazz III XL which Guthrie has been using for a long while. The black one is stiffer and that's been Guthrie's main pick for the last several years. It's somewhere in between the standard size picks and the small Jazz III picks.

Brand new out of the plastic bag, the Jazz III XL has some rough edges that makes it difficult to play. What I've done is take an emery board to file away the rough edges, give it a little bevel on both sides and then smooth 'em out with very fine sandpaper and now they play really well. Sounds very good too - bright for a size its thickness but full.

I'm finding that I like the black Jazz III XL's quite a bit after doing some file-and-sand work on the edges - more so than the Ultex Jazz III's. But I don't understand why the edges are so rough out of the bag. New picks should be ready to go right away. Now I've got a bunch of the XL's that I'll need to work on to make 'em playable. Still like the Red Bears the most but it's good to have some "off-the-shelf" picks around that you don't have to worry about losing. Smile
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jclarkson



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found the ultex jazz IIIs had a really scrapy sort of sound, where as the red ones are a bit softer in the attack, at least to me.

Red bear lil' jazzer with a bevel arrived in the post a couple of days ago and it glides over the strings like silk. I can imagine it would be incredible for sweep picking, if I could actually do it.
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jordan



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 161

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Red Bear Little Jazzer (thick, with grip holes, no bevel) turned up last week and I've used it solidly since for gigs/rehearsal/teaching, on electric and acoustic.

Over the past 5 years I've been playing all kinds of small picks, mostly the Dunlop stubbies, then the black Jazz IIIs, and more recently the Ultex. The Ultex was always the winner as it had the clearest tone, and the best grip.

Hype aside, the Red Bear wins, no contest. It's a very smooth pick, string contact feels great, and it's alot clearer sounding than the Ultex. This was confirmed when I tested my other half by swapping between the red bear and ultex picks on an unplugged guitar.....she identified the Red Bear every time(!).

Expensive? Yeah, it's pretty steep.
Worth it? I think so. I only ordered one, so I'll see how durable it turns out to be. Might pick up another one or two if it shows signs of wear over time.

Finally....I can't believe how possessive I've become about a pick....I have to know where it is at all times Wink

Cheers
Jordan
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jclarkson wrote:
I found the ultex jazz IIIs had a really scrapy sort of sound, where as the red ones are a bit softer in the attack, at least to me.

Red bear lil' jazzer with a bevel arrived in the post a couple of days ago and it glides over the strings like silk. I can imagine it would be incredible for sweep picking, if I could actually do it.


Yeah, I know what you mean regarding the Ultex Jazz III's. You have to sort of hit the strings at the "proper" angle to get a more firm punchy sound out of 'em.

What gauge did you get for the Lil' Jazzer? Yes, they do glide over the strings real smooth but you still get a nice snappy attack out of the Red Bears.
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jordan wrote:
My Red Bear Little Jazzer (thick, with grip holes, no bevel) turned up last week and I've used it solidly since for gigs/rehearsal/teaching, on electric and acoustic.

Over the past 5 years I've been playing all kinds of small picks, mostly the Dunlop stubbies, then the black Jazz IIIs, and more recently the Ultex. The Ultex was always the winner as it had the clearest tone, and the best grip.

Hype aside, the Red Bear wins, no contest. It's a very smooth pick, string contact feels great, and it's alot clearer sounding than the Ultex. This was confirmed when I tested my other half by swapping between the red bear and ultex picks on an unplugged guitar.....she identified the Red Bear every time(!).

Expensive? Yeah, it's pretty steep.
Worth it? I think so. I only ordered one, so I'll see how durable it turns out to be. Might pick up another one or two if it shows signs of wear over time.

Finally....I can't believe how possessive I've become about a pick....I have to know where it is at all times Wink

Cheers
Jordan


Hey Jordan,

Glad to know that you're digging the Red Bear Lil' Jazzer. Yeah, the difference is quite noticeable, isn't it? I'm going back and forth between the Lil' Jazzer H and the Big Jazzer H as they sound and feel a little different. I've also got the Classic II H and that one feels and sounds great as well in a different way.

Guthrie is evaluating a bunch of 'em right now and he says the current favorite is the Big Jazzer XH with no bevel. He really likes the DZ Classic II XH with the bevel as well. He doesn't think it's possible to get that one "ultimate" pick as different picks and gauges all react differently to different guitars. We may check with Red Bear about developing a new shape based on the Jazz III XL as that one's still bigger than the Big Jazzer and Guthrie prefers a larger shape.

The Red Bear picks are keepers for sure. I love the fact that they're all ready to go right away straight out of the bag and that they just don't wear out. I've had a few for over 2 months with a lot of hours on 'em and they still look and feel like new.

Guthrie said he likes how the Jazz III XL's have a "grind" to them when they wear out a bit after a week or two but noticed that the Red Bears don't get any wear at all after a few weeks. So I recommended that he get Red Bear's pick maintenance kit that includes an emery board file and sanding pads to produce an artificial wear and slight bevel on the picks and see how that works out for him. Fun stuff. Smile
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redhandedhaze



Joined: 26 Apr 2008
Posts: 25
Location: Alfred, NY

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alexkhan wrote:

Guthrie said he likes how the Jazz III XL's have a "grind" to them when they wear out a bit after a week or two but noticed that the Red Bears don't get any wear at all after a few weeks. So I recommended that he get Red Bear's pick maintenance kit that includes an emery board file and sanding pads to produce an artificial wear and slight bevel on the picks and see how that works out for him. Fun stuff. Smile


I love that feeling a Jazz III can get after a couple weeks, but using the file on my redbear has made it almost perfect for me--I'm posting a couple audio tracks with this, one of them is me playing with the redbear and one is with a dunlop jazz III. I'm playing the same songs in both, but there are some subtle differences between the picks

Dunlop Jazz III

Red Bear Lil Jazzer

My computers a little old, so the tracks jump sound a bit, but you can get an idea of what a red bear pick may do for you
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

redhandedhaze wrote:
alexkhan wrote:

Guthrie said he likes how the Jazz III XL's have a "grind" to them when they wear out a bit after a week or two but noticed that the Red Bears don't get any wear at all after a few weeks. So I recommended that he get Red Bear's pick maintenance kit that includes an emery board file and sanding pads to produce an artificial wear and slight bevel on the picks and see how that works out for him. Fun stuff. Smile


I love that feeling a Jazz III can get after a couple weeks, but using the file on my redbear has made it almost perfect for me--I'm posting a couple audio tracks with this, one of them is me playing with the redbear and one is with a dunlop jazz III. I'm playing the same songs in both, but there are some subtle differences between the picks

Dunlop Jazz III

Red Bear Lil Jazzer

My computers a little old, so the tracks jump sound a bit, but you can get an idea of what a red bear pick may do for you


Good job on the clips. Yeah, the notes on the Red Bear clip are crisper and better balanced with more articulation.

Did you cut a slight bevel on the Lil' Jazzer?
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redhandedhaze



Joined: 26 Apr 2008
Posts: 25
Location: Alfred, NY

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah- I used the file that came with the maintenance kit, but I didn't use any of the other pads. The other pads seems to make the pick feel how it was new, so I filed a bit of a bevel and thinned the tip a little bit and it works great Smile --I think I'm addicted to this pick, and it only seems to get better the more I play it
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doctordragon



Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These picks seem interesting...has anybody here tried the Wegens? If so which are the differences between Wegens and Redbears? How do they compare?
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