Guthrie Govan Discussion

[alexkhan]

We're all fairly serious guitar music fans or we wouldn't be here frequenting this board as Guthrie fans. That means we've been listening to and enjoying many great guitar players for a good number of years. In my case, it goes back to the late-70's as a big fan of Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Yes, and Pink Floyd. From there, the journey went in many directions through all kinds of twists and turns to where I'm now as a guitar music fan, although I have to admit that guitar-based music probably makes up less than 25% of my listening diet. I think the thing about Guthrie, to me - at least, is that he sums up many of my favorite players of the past (or great players in general) in one seamless "package," so to speak.

Based on my conversations with him and the interviews I've read, I'll try to run down Guthrie's guitar influences and how they affected his style and development as player and musician. I'm just going to stick with the guitar players and not so much on musicians who are known more as songwriters and composers. I do know for sure that the majority of music that Guthrie listens to and enjoys is not instrumental guitar music. He has often mentioned to me musicians (non-guitarists) that I've never heard of, so it's quite clear to me that he's more interested in great all-around musicians, not just great guitar players.

Still, being that Guthrie is a great guitar player with many guitar influences, I thought I'd list some players who were major influences on his style and development in a rough chronological order. I'm sure I'll be omitting some players as I can't remember all the details and my conversations with Guthrie tend to run the gamut from guitar players to the culture of Japan and other non-music related subjects. This is sort of what I hear in Guthrie's multi-faceted style. If you guys have any other comments on who you think that Guthrie was influenced by, please do contribute.

The Early Years

The Beatles and George Harrison - I'm not sure if George Harrison was a direct influence on Guthrie or not. Guthrie does always mention the Beatles as an early influence. It's easy to hear that influence as Guthrie does have that natural penchant for the memorable hook. Harrison didn't play any solos that blew people away but he always played very melodic and concise solos that fit the context of those great songs. In that regard, I think we can safely say that Harrison has had that subliminal influence on Guthrie's style.

Eric Clapton - There's no doubt about it - Clapton is a major influence on Guthrie even though most people hearing Guthrie for the first time won't hear it. I think a lot of the phrasing in Guthrie's style is informed by Clapton's late-60's and early-70's years (Cream, Derek & The Dominos, the first solo albums). I can't say I'm a huge Clapton fan, but I love the Cream albums like 'Disareli Gears' and 'Wheels of Fire' as well as 'Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs' and I clearly hear that influence in Guthrie's style. I think this is where Guthrie would have learned about making the solos fit as well as the more technical aspects of long jams and melodic content and good vibrato.

Jimi Hendrix - On the surface of what we hear from Guthrie, Jimi is another player we wouldn't equate to Guthrie's style on first glance. But I hear a lot of Jimi in what Guthrie does - not so much in copping Jimi's licks or style, but as more of a "spiritual" guide, if you get my drift. Jimi meant, and means to this very day, a lot of different things to different people. Some think he was a blues guy at heart. Others think he was a restless innovator and revolutionary who was always pushing boundaries and breaking the rules. I tend to think he has elements of both, but I'm of the school that thinks that Jimi was about constantly moving forward and trying to create something new. And I like to think that that's what Guthrie got from Jimi - that sort of restless searching spirit.

Joe Pass - We've read the interviews and Guthrie mentions Joe Pass as someone who had a big impact on his early years. It's really interesting to think that a kid in his early-teens would be so interested in a player such as Pass and try to figure out those complex chord melodies that Pass is famous for. Here we see the early natural development of Guthrie's advanced harmonic vocabulary. Seriously, how many 13-year-olds are going to be smitten by Pass? The fact that Guthrie absorbed and learned this stuff at such a young age shows that he wasn't going to be a "normal" rock player. Certainly, Pass is one of the giants of jazz guitar and was probably its greatest solo practitioner.

So you meld the Beatles, Clapton, Jimi and Pass during Guthrie's early years and you see a very solid foundation not just from a guitar standpoint, but from an all-around musical standpoint. Instead of being like typical kids in their teens wanting to cop licks of the latest guitar hero hot shots to impress friends and the girls, Guthrie already had grounding in the music and styles of some of the greatest musical minds of the 20th century. Why does Guthrie not sound like the typical shredder? I'd say these early influences when Guthrie was still attending elementary school had a lot to do with that.

The Early-Middle (Teen) Years

Frank Zappa - I'm not sure exactly when Guthrie discovered Zappa, but I get the sense that it was fairly early as well. Again, Guthrie has to be considered very precocious to be getting into someone like Zappa in his early-teens. Again, it must have been the music of Zappa that grabbed Guthrie more than mere guitar playing. Zappa was a rock musician who stretched the limits of what was known as rock. He certainly wasn't a jazz musician or a classical musician, but he took many ideas and concepts from both genres to expand the confines of the rock genre in ways that no one else even thought about. Guthrie's sly and wry musical sense of humor must have also come from Zappa. I don't think Guthrie would disagree that Zappa probably had the most profound impact on his musical development.

Steve Vai - Guthrie mentioned hearing Vai for the first time on DLR's 'Eat 'em and Smile' album in the mid-80's. Then he found out that Vai played with Zappa before then, so Guthrie must have felt that Vai was some sort of a "kindred" spirit in that regard. I don't think Guthrie really tried to cop Vai's style but I'm sure that the Zappa influence filtered through Vai as well as Guthrie's own development. A few people mention Guthrie as being heavily or mostly influenced by Vai but I don't really hear it. They share that Zappa influence, but as I outlined in Guthrie's early years, Guthrie has that solid blues-based foundation which I don't think Vai has. Still, there's no doubt that Vai was an influence on Guthrie and I do know that Guthrie has a huge amount of respect for Vai and what he has accomplished.

Eddie Van Halen - Oddly enough, Guthrie discovered EVH after discovering Vai. So we can say that this is a bit of a weird twist in Guthrie's development compared to other budding rock guitar players of his age during that era (early-to-mid 80's). I really can't say that I hear much of EVH in Guthrie's style at all. Maybe I'm wrong, but like with Jimi, I think EVH was more of a "spiritual" type of influence on Guthrie but less so than with Jimi.

Ritchie Blackmore - You know, I don't think Guthrie and I ever really discussed Blackmore but I hear a lot of Blackmore in what he does - especially in the vibrato and that controlled yet reckless sense of abandon.

David Gilmour - Gilmour is the master of melodic lyricism and drama and there's no doubt in my mind that Guthrie was very influenced by Gilmour's style for building tension in the solos and concluding them in a way that makes musical sense - both emotionally and theoretically. I could be wrong, but I figure that the concise simplicity that Guthrie chooses over fast complex runs depending on the context of the music must come from his study of what Gilmour has done.

Steve Morse - I can't say that I was ever a big Morse fan, but it's clear that the versatility factor of Guthrie's style must come from Morse to a large degree during these "middle" years of Guthrie's development. Certainly, people point out some Morse-isms in Guthrie's lines and phrasing ideas. It's also very possible that Guthrie's musical curiosity was expanded by someone like Morse but I'm not sure. For instance, I don't know exactly when Guthrie started getting into country but it could have started with Morse.

Yngwie Malmsteen and the Neoclassical Era - It's hard to say to what degree Guthrie was directly influenced by Yngwie and the whole neoclassical shred movement of the mid-to-late 80's. I know that the neoclassical style isn't exactly his cup of tea, but he did mention that he felt the need to learn a lot of it (even though he didn't enjoy a lot of that style of music) so that he can expand his chops to be able to play whatever came up in his mind. And for him, that's what it all came down to - mastering the various techniques and developing the speed to execute the musical ideas that popped up in his head. And, boy, did he ever! So, along with Yngwie, we can say that he definitely brushed up on MacAlpine, Vinnie Moore, Racer X, Cacophony, and others of those glory Shrapnel days.

The Latter-Middle (1990's) Years

By this time, Guthrie had already turned down Mike Varney's offer to record a shred instrumental album on the Shrapnel label. He already had the mega-chops to "compete" with the best of the Shrapnel guys, but Guthrie wisely decided that he needed to develop his own voice and style. He knew he wasn't musically mature and that's what he wanted to focus on, not be lumped in with all these other "latest and greatest" super shredders who seemed to pop up every few months. I guess we can say that this era is when the musicality and originality factor started making its way into Guthrie's overall style. Also, this is when he took on the gig of transcribing and writing columns for the Guitar Techniques magazine and that also must have had a major role in Guthrie further expanding his overall musical knowledge and mastery of various techniques and stylistic genres.

Shawn Lane - By the early-90's, Lane was already an underground legend in the nerdy guitar circles. I myself had heard the bootleg tapes of Lane that were being circulated amongst the GIT and other music school alumni at the time. Personally, I didn't care for much of it and, to this day, much of what he did never really connected with me although there's no doubt he was the most supreme technician who also had deep musicality. Like Liszt or Tatum or other insane technical virtuosos in music history, Lane has had that sort of an influence in the very narrow confines of the technique-oriented guitar community.

And, obviously, Guthrie would have been part of that community. Still, I really believe that Guthrie absorbed the musical aspect of what Lane offered than the sheer technical aspect that so many guitar nerds tend to focus on. Essentially, speed itself wasn't the goal, just a means to a musical end. I think that's what Lane offered and left behind. To me, the end musical results of what Lane accomplished are mixed at best, but he's had a major impact on making players such as Guthrie and other virtuosos to use speed in a truly musical and creative manner.

Greg Howe - Of the late-80's, early-90's stable of Shrapnel shredders, Howe is arguably the only one who really broke out of that constricted niche and developed a unique style by forging aggressive shred-rock with elements of the fusion, funk, pop, and jazz idioms. Now, smooth fluidity, swinging groove and catchy pop sensibilities are introduced as a worthy reaction against the grand dramatic posturing of neoclassical bombast and Howe led the way. While this didn't exactly revive the dying shred movement in the age of grunge, it did allow Howe to survive and move on. Guthrie is certainly influenced a lot by Howe in many ways and I really believe that this influence helped Guthrie to forge a fresh style and move away from the tired "shred" genre of the 80's.

Jazz Masters - John Scofield and Pat Metheny - Guthrie isn't really a traditional jazz player but he has certainly studied a bunch. I don't know to what degree Guthrie has actually studied guys like Scofield, Metheny, Stern, Benson, Wes, Martino, etc., but he has certainly absorbed them just through the enjoyment of listening to such players. I do remember Guthrie saying that he has never sat down trying to analyze exactly what Metheny is doing but that he'd just listen and let all that info just subconsciously filter through. And I hear a lot of that "subconscious" sort of influence of Metheny and Scofield in Guthrie's playing. There's that unpredictability and funky loopiness of Scofield's lines and then there's that sophisticated melodic fluidity and effortlessly flowing speed of Metheny's lines that Guthrie often throws in during his solos.

....

Well, I'm going to have to stop here for now as this is turning out to be an epic post (even by my standards! ) and there's still a lot more I want to comment on. The next section would be more about Guthrie's contemporaries and other influences that I may have forgotten - ranging from Buckethead to Jeff Beck and Tuck Andress to Sonny Landreth and Bumblefoot to Scott Henderson. Till then...
_________________
Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.

[ShadyDavey]

Awesome post - I can't wait to read the next installment

Ironically enough I actually got into EVH after Vai - as I started playing guitar I only had limited cash to spend on albums so I bought the DLR stuff and then worked backwards into EVH. Being from the UK and not hugely affluent I didn't have constant access to contemporary music magazines and I generally bought more immediate artists like Saxon, Iron Maiden, Motorhead etc etc.

I admit, it was basically from ignorance It wasn't until I became friends with an American whos father lectured on the local US Airforce base that I got into EVH, Journey, Boston and so on.

[greenfingers]

Really good post Ed, or as you said Epic. a few other people i think he may enjoy listened to from what i can gather are Scotty Anderson, Derrick Trucks, Eric Johnson and Steve Wonder. i can hear parts of there musicality when the music he plays steps into there field. What stands out for me is that there is no overriding influence that suppresses his own musical goals.

[alexkhan]

[Cass679]

Awesome post Ed! It's a really good read, and I'd imagine a generically accurate description of GG's influence, although as as already mentioned, there's probably an endless list of musicians that we could make, from what we hear of the magician himself. I suppose that's what I enjoy (but not just) about Guthrie; he can absorb every influence into his brain and hands, yet still sound like himself! Be that guitar, non-guitar, shred, jazz... whatever!! He just seems to take it in his stride quite effortlessly and continue to get better and better! (Damn him!)
_________________
"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him a spinal cord would fully suffice." - Albert Einstein

[andyvicius]

amazing post ed. you rock!!!

[alexkhan]

Glad you guys enjoyed the first installment. Here I go with number 2. I guess I'm just organizing my thoughts as a GG fan and guitar music fan in general into a compendium of players who we love and grew up with. It's a fun thing and, yeah, I like to write. So, let's move on.

The Latter-Middle (1990's) Years (Continued)

Eric Johnson - When I listen to EJ, I hear meticulous attention-to-detail, impeccable technique, a very positive vibe, refined yet earthy guitar sounds, and a deep sense of passion that he has for music in general. Like Morse, there's more of what I'd call "rural" sensibility in his style than "urban" sounding guys like Satch and Vai. Texas blues, ragtime jazz, southern folk music, some world music influences and authentic country twang are some of the ingredients that are masterfully fused with vintage Hendrix psychedelia and modern rock guitar techniques.

It's easy to see why Guthrie has such a great admiration for Eric all the way around. EJ is like a walking encyclopedia of guitar sounds and styles and I'm sure that such knowledge and mastery that EJ exhibited on classic albums such as 'Tones,' 'Ah Via Musicom,' and 'Venus Isles' was a big inspiration to Guthrie during the formative 90's years. Personally, I prefer a little more urban rock aggression and approach than what EJ normally offers as a writer and player, but that's just a matter of taste. Without a doubt, EJ has to be considered one of GG's favorite players and a major influence during Guthrie's formative years.

Joe Satriani - Satch was a favorite of mine for a long time. I kind of thought that Vai could do more technically, but I always preferred the tunes of Satch and just the way he carried himself as a genuinely serious musician than a rock star who gets a little too carried away with image and self-consciousness. Satch made "shred" fun and enjoyable to the masses and he did that better than anyone else. He wrote instrumental tunes that non-players could hum along to in their cars.

Of all the virtuosos that came around in the 80's, I still have to say that Satch has been the most consistent and the most enjoyable to listen to throughout the years. I think that "fun" characteristic of Satch has rubbed off a lot on Guthrie. Satch wasn't afraid to incorporate funk and dance music sounds into his style when everyone else was trying to outdo each other with intense seriousness (pretentiousness) and musical bombast. Satch showed that you can be serious and have fun at the same time. It's still rock and roll.

Jeff Beck - Well, what can one say about Jeff Beck? What self-respecting guitar player hasn't been influenced by him to some degree and who else has continued to push the envelope and take daring risks over so many years? Many call him the "greatest electric guitar player alive" and it's hard to disagree when you consider what he has achieved and how he can literally do things that other great players can't even dream of pulling off. His career has had its share of ups and downs and his live performances can be somewhat inconsistent, but man, when he's on, he's on like no one else.

I haven't talked a lot about JB with Guthrie but I'm sure that he was an important influence. JB's often otherworldly phrasing, his raw energy, the gutsy emotionalism, the unpredictability and poignant lyricism are all qualities that I'm sure weren't lost on Guthrie over all these years. Some of JB's output had a lot of us scratching our heads and he was never a writer of anything significant, but as a stylist and innovator who literally becomes one with the guitar and amp, it's hard to think of anyone else who can pull out so much from a simple rig with just his hands.

Scott Henderson - Having been informed by the advanced jazz vocabulary of Joe Pass at an early age, it's obvious that Guthrie would have sought out harmonically advanced playing and music later during his development but something that still had the energy of rock. Enter the master of the jaw-dropping lines - Scott Henderson. Guthrie has mentioned several times in interviews that Scott is one of his favorite players and I believe that Guthrie would have been into him since the Tribal Tech days and followed him through the blues records like 'Dog Party' and 'Tore Down House' to what he is doing now as a master of a category that can be dubbed jazz-blues fusion.

Scott is someone who is much admired by the likes of Metheny, Holdsworth, and McLaughlin, so you get an idea of what a heavyweight he is in terms of the lines he plays as an improvisor of the highest degree. He is not your typical speed-obsessed legato fusion freak or a conventional blues rocker or a traditional jazz cat. But he can mix these disparate elements into a greater whole like no one else I can think of. And you can bet that Guthrie has listened to a lot of Scott and that he continues to do so. Scott has a voice and style that's his very own and that's what all advanced players seek to achieve as they get better and better. Scott definitely has to be considered one of Guthrie's top several contemporary stylists in the fusion scene today.

Brett Garsed - Brett is another monster that Guthrie has called "frickin' remarkable." It's really a shame that Brett doesn't get more recognition although it's understandable that his advanced style just won't be understood or appreciated by the rock guys while the snooty jazz or fusion guys may say it's "too rock." A lot of rock-fusion guys like Brett, Howe, Derryl Gabel, etc. seem to sit in this not-this-and-not-that type of category where they don't seem to attract the fans of either rock or jazz. Personally, I'm more in the rock camp as well and don't find the music of this sort of genre my cup of tea. Still, it's all very interesting stuff.

Again, it must be the lines that someone like Brett plays that attracts Guthrie to players like him. Also, Brett's unique hybrid picking style has also worked its way into Guthrie's formidable arsenal of techniques. I'm sure you guys have noticed how often Guthrie employs the pick-and-fingers approach to play fast lines across multiple strings instead of sweep picking or string skipping or employing the Holdsworth-style legato technique of spanning 5~7 frets on one string. Brett is one of those guitar hero's guitar hero - absolutely amazing and beautifully fluid but in a stylistic category where he's sadly under-appreciated. Well, but we can certainly say that Guthrie appreciates Brett a great deal!

Country Masters - Scotty Anderson and Brent Mason - Guthrie has often mentioned Scotty and Brent to me so I obviously know how he feels about them. Guthrie has this hill-billy boy in him that he must get out of his system and when it comes to monster country players - besides Albert Lee, of course - SA and BM have to be considered amongst the very best. I got to know about Scotty through Guthrie and I've become a big fan although I have to say that country music in general isn't something I've found to be very appealing or that I've followed over the years.

I'm not too familiar with Brent's work and he's on the list of someone I need to check out more, but I've become quite familiar with Scotty now. He's certainly a wonder of the guitar world - effortlessly melding really advanced country and jazz playing with some of the most ridiculous chops ever. I mean, this guy plays double-stops and even triple-stops at rock shredder speeds with amazing clarity and definition. And everything he plays sounds so musical as well - an absolutely fantastic player. It's great to know that Guthrie is always seeking out the best like Scotty and trying to learn. It bodes well for Guthrie's future and ours as well!

Slide Masters - Sonny Landreth and Derek Trucks - I can't say I'm too familiar with either but I plan to get more into these acknowledged masters of the slide as well. Guthrie clearly enjoys playing slide and, once again, he's being informed and influenced by the very best.

So, okay, I'm going to have to stop Part 2 here. There's still the "contemporary" or "new" players that Guthrie admires that I'll have to cover on Part 3 and I'll probably have a Part 4 of "Honorable Mentions" of great players who may not have had the huge impact on Guthrie's style as the aforementioned giants but are, nevertheless, some of Guthrie's favorite players and influences. Chow!
_________________
Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.

[ShadyDavey]

Keep 'em coming

[jordan]

[van hellion]

he is also one of my top 3 favorite guitarists of all time!

check the album hotwired for tele torture and the album smokin section for some unbelievable bebop and western swing!

A Wood
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www.myspace.com/awoodshreds
www.myspace.com/downfromuponline

[greenfingers]

Once again Ed great work, cant wait for pt 3, the new bread of guitarists Guthrie hangs out with and admires are some of the most humorous and outright freakish players I've heard in a long time.

[alexkhan]

Thanks for the info on Brent. I'll have to check out that album real soon.
_________________
Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.

[van hellion]

no prob Ed!

A Wood
_________________
www.myspace.com/awoodshreds
www.myspace.com/downfromuponline

[alexkhan]

[van hellion]

i couldnt think of a better author to tackle the project!

A Wood
_________________
www.myspace.com/awoodshreds
www.myspace.com/downfromuponline