Guthrie Govan Discussion

[Ryuzaki4]

Hey guys Ive been getting into a lot of Jazz fusion recently but im in a lost on where to start. can someone tell me some jazz fusion scales especially the fusion scales or licks that guthrie would commonly use?

Thanks,
Regards
J

[RoryButler]

There are no fusion scales.

Fusion is a genre of music and a playing style.

For example, I mainly use the A natural minor scale over the "Sunny" backing track that Greg Howe plays to on youtube, and even though the A natural minor scale isn't a scale tailored specifically for fusion, it still sounds fusion due to the notes I pick and the way I play them (when playing over that I overuse Greg Howe's "slide vibrato" waaay too much )

If you're getting into fusion, I'd suggest doing as I did (I'm still fairly new to fusion, only in the last year or so I've gotten into it) and just listen to as much as possible, learn as much as possible, read as much as possible.

Where licks that Guthrie uses are concerned...well Guthrie doesn't play using "licks", so if you want to use Guthrie sounding licks, just listen to some of his solos and take some licks from them!
Then when you're comfortable with GUthrie's style, make your own licks within his style.

[Scias]

I would look into altered/superlocrian scales to get that 'wrong notes that sound right' vibe. This is best learnt from real lessons though. Let me know if you want me to explain more.

[Mirth]

Fusion, like Frankus said, has little to do with any particular scales per se, but more about how you approach things. Saying that, I think a big difference between your normal “shred” and “fusion” is the use of more colors. A typical shred solo stays in one key, and plays mostly in notes (unless they’re doing some kind of diminished lick thing), where fusion tends to try different modes and approaches harmony from a more jazz like approach.

For instance if you have an Aminor vamp or something in 7/8 or whatever, you could use quite a variety of scales/arpeggiated ideas to solo over it. There’s a lot of modes that are appropriate, and a lot of superimpostitions of chords you could use for a variety of colors. There’s also techniques like side stepping, or sequencing that could be applied, not to mention more far out things like “triadic chromatic” ideas.

So saying that, be sure to learn more about modes and what scale/chord relationships work and clash till resolved can be accomplished. Mostly experiment with different notes on the chord, experiment with different placement of notes (not always starting and ending on the beat). This will all help. And as Frankus said, listen to a lot of it, it will start to absorb.
_________________
www.timmirth.com
www.myspace.com/redsidevisible
www.myspace.com/mirthfulmusic
www.reverbnation.com/timmirth

[SG]

i'm in the same situation as you. what i heard from different people and began to believe is that one should first learn jazz to have a good grasp of theory and harmony. if you come from rock like myself and want to dive directly into fusion, it won't be convincing. take your time, listen to a lot of stuff. these things take months and years to really absorb because you actually train your ear to hear new harmonies. it doesn't happen overnight. baby steps.

another thing is to feel and understand blues. blues is great to learn phrasing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwnPpU1VDrg). and i don't mean blues rock cliches. people like robben ford and scott henderson play interesting stuff with a modern approach while making use of lots of things from jazz. phrasing is the key element that makes the difference, because at the end of the day it's the same 12 notes.

hopefully, we both will achieve our goal.

[Scias]

There's knowing that jazz/fusion is different from rock, then there's actually learning how to play jazz or fusion. Any genre of music sounds better with more thought and taste put into the notes.

While a lot of the 'grace' notes sound purely chromatic and random in jazz, some of them do have theory behind them. The best way to learn jazz is to take lessons from a professional. You'll learn all about ii-V-I chord progressions, then it will expand on the ii-V-I, introducing the ii-V-I-VI, then introducing altered chords to substitute with chords 5 and 6; discovering that there can be a key change with each chord change, then introducing a flat-5 substitution on chord 5 to help the bass line walk down, then introducing other inversions and how to play in a band by creating space in your playing. Very complicated sounding, but to be honest once you learn it it's not complicated and fun to use. However I can't explain it here it would take ages. But what I will say is that improvising should be mostly listening, so you know what you're about to play will sound good.

[sumis]

go to the source. listen. a lot. learn tradition, thus WHY stuff sounds the way it does. go backwards.

if you don't get it under your ears first, it won't happen in your playing.

imho: i.e. there's no way around charlie parker, even if you want to sound like brett garsed.

there's NO WAY WHAT SO EVER around parker, miles, coltrane, shorter, monk, etc, if you're interested in sounding like henderson, maclaughlin or ford.

listen, listen, listen and make the classic sounds home turf, and predictable. if you don't like what you hear, it won't happen.

it is not about magic scales, but about huge reservoirs of idioms and conventions, that together make up a tradition.

i have a feeling guthrie would approve of my suggestion. or take it from the man himself instead:

[DLM]

+1

I've read that before, of course, but it's so accurate that it bears repeating often.