It's great! Can't really imagine it being any better.
59%
[ 13 ]
It's pretty good, but there's still room for improvement.
36%
[ 8 ]
It's not bad, but I think he needs to really work on it more.
4%
[ 1 ]
It's bad. He needs a new approach and new gear.
0%
[ 0 ]
Total Votes : 22
Author
Message
alexkhan
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:36 am Post subject: Guthrie's Tone
I'm getting a lot of positive feedback about Guthrie's guitar tone and overall sound from people who have seen the clips and the DVD. Typically, shred kind of players do not have good tone. They often tend to have a thin gained-out, squashed-out, beehive-in-a-jar sizzly sound which really fatigues the ears after a little while.
The thing about Guthrie's tone is that it sounds very organic ("woody" is a term that has been mentioned a lot) with a right balance of cutting violin-like high-mids and highs and warm cello-like low-to-mid mids and lows. But then, some tone connoisseur type of guys have told me that while Guthrie's tone is good, it's not great like that of EVH, Holdsworth, Landau, EJ, Henderson, Lane, etc. I'd agree that Guthrie's tone, as of this moment, isn't as distinctive as some of these masters, but I believe he's getting there.
I think what makes it tough for Guthrie to come up with an instantly recognizable signature sound is that he covers so many styles and techniques. How does one come up with a signature sound in all those styles and genres let alone get technically proficient at them? Some have told me that they thought Guthrie's tone is a little thin and dry while others tell me it's plenty fat and juicy, so it's interesting how people perceive things so differently.
There is always room for improvement and I'm sure Guthrie's own approach to sound (mainly through his technique and touch) and equipment will continue to evolve. Personally, I think he's about 80~85% of the way there in terms of having that personal signature sound that he could call his very own. Style-wise, I think he's at around 90% and getting more distinctive by the day. Sound-wise, I feel he needs to work on it more and hone it some more, but I do believe he'll get there... _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
I think he makes a great noise. Gets the job done ok! Its the attitude of the tunes that hit me first before the sound i guess, though. So thats what comes across to me. But without a decent tone it would have a detrimental impact i guess.
Typically, shred kind of players do not have good tone.
I would agree with you there but guthrie isn't really a shred player at least that's not really the way i think of him. he has those chops of course, but he's obviously much more than that
The thing about Guthrie's tone is that it sounds very organic
yeah i would definately say that. maybe in part because he uses 10's (i believe) and of course the sound that just comes from his fingers, he has a ballsier attack than most shred guys and when he picks stuff with his three fingers he gets a more varied sound (im thinking of bad asteroid on the "bootleg" dvd he has this really nice lick at the beginning)
Quote:
some tone connoisseur type of guys have told me that while Guthrie's tone is good, it's not great like that of EVH, Holdsworth, Landau, EJ, Henderson, Lane, etc.
I don't care for the tones of all of those guys but i agree there. i remember the first g3 video when it was satch vai and ej and they all played three songs together. you really couldnt believe it when ej took his solo his tone was worlds better than the other two he really kicked their butts!
I believe he's getting there.
i do too...he may never be the type of player that has just one signature sound either, and that's a good thing. i always think back to that clip on cornford amps entitled "ridiculous" it's really a fitting title because you shouldn't be able to sound that good playing like that but guthrie does...
I find Guthrie's tone varies some times it's good, some times it's phenomenal
Only once did I find it weak, it's odd cos he changes his effects and settings all the time, it's an object lesson in the "all in the fingers" cliché.. it is all in the fingers.. some times the eq isn't as sympathetic as it could be but otherwise I think it's spot on. _________________ Fabulous powers were revealed to me the day I held my magic Suhr(d) aloft and said "by the power of great scale!"
Yeah love the man's tone, but I prefer that dry signal, straight into a valve amp type sound, just you and the guitar volume control for tone. As you say much more organic. _________________ Cheers
Mark.
I think Guthrie's live tone is great. His tone can be quite raw and agreessive or smooth when he wants it to be. My favorite tone is from that Fellowship CD. Although he is not without some bad moments, like that old recording of Wonderful Slippery Thing, which I found to be quite yucky and very un-Guthrie-like, and plus some of the tones he uses for those GT tracks I really don't care for. But his playing still shines nonetheless.
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:14 pm Post subject:
Obviously, Guthrie has gone through various phases of tone and gear like anyone else. A lot of those old tracks (GT clips, compilation album stuff that he's released over the years, bootlegs, etc.) are indeed quite old in various stages of Guthrie's evolvement. I've noticed a big improvement during the '05 NAMM shows since the '04 clinic. The Suhr guitars certainly help, but I just think he's becoming more and more comfortable playing his own stuff and zeroing on what sounds he wants to get out of his playing. You have to remember that he still teaches and writes columns which forces him to mimic other players.
During the NAMM shows with the rack rig, I was trying to get Guthrie to use the TC2290 delay more for the wet signal but we really didn't have the time to work on the settings and he definitely didn't want the delay going on all the time, even with the delay unit's ducking feature. I'm talking more about his live sound when compared to some of the other greats that I've observed in the same room (Allan Holdsworth, Scott Henderson, Joel Hoekstra, Richie Kotzen, for example). I thought that these guys had an overall bigger and thicker sound than Guthrie's without being any louder. Guthrie sounded great, but I feel that there's just a little more that could be done to really stand out tone-wise from the pack. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:47 am Post subject:
Now will the person who voted for the third choice please stand up and tell us what you didn't care for about Guthrie's tone and what you think he could do to sound better? Inquiring minds want to know! _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 Posts: 214 Location: Hong Kong
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:06 am Post subject:
I really dig Guthrie's tone. "Woody" is a nice description... just so natural and real with plenty of guts. Clean yet Dirty (the holy paradox). Sure, a lot of it comes down to fingers.
What Guitar is Guthrie using in the Tone Merchants video clips? Is it a PRS? I used to own a PRS standard, but found it really heavy to play (like a Gibson), but the tones it pulled were quite nice. Do they make them lighter these days (my poor back!). Those Cornfields sounds great too!
I really recommend that you get the DVD of this performance. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
After watching the Jan 19th DVD I found his sound to (overall) be a bit sterile, particularly his overdriven sound - a bit too thick for my liking, all the colours were a bit lost in the slightly brown-ish 'fast guitar' kind of sound. Perhaps I'm being a bit harsh, and also the quality of the sound of the DVD isn't exactly conducive to communicating that ephemeral 'life' that individual sounds possess...but still, I can't help but crave bit more subtlety and a whole lot more colour when I listen to Guthrie's sound.
Of course when I say more subtlety I'm referring to the quality of the sound rather than Guthrie's playing itself, which as we know is incredibly subtle (much of the time). I actually feel like some of the sounds I've now heard Guthrie use now make it harder for me to get into his playing. I think the time I've heard him and felt he was being most communicative with his sound is when he was playing many-styles-of-blues-solo with a dry sound at the end of the clinic DVD (the unaccompanied PRS section, not jamming on the Suhr - incidentally, why was that terrible backing track on when we could have just been listening to humans comping?).
Maybe I'm totally alone here, but I don't think I'm tripping out. Personally I'm inclined towards a really 'natural' sound (as natural as a sound can be after it's converted into an electrical signal and sent down a lead into an amp and converted back into lovely soundwaves), but I like any kind of sound as long as I don't think it's limiting a player's expressive potential, and that their approach to and application of that sound is fully realised. I don't think that's yet the case with Guthrie.
Last edited by bill® on Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
I think Guthrie's natural tone is fantastic - the sound he produces with his fingers. But his overall amplified sound isn't quite to my tastes, yet. I think he tends to use much less distortion than the music might suit (of course, it's admirable in that it requires a far more accurate technique!) - but his tone is improving to my ears: check out the polar opposites of Asia's Live in America DVD and NAMM show! I can't believe the difference.
But hey, tone is subjective! I'm sure many people would have objections to mine.
Best,
John. _________________ - Visit www.johngregson.co.uk and be happy -
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:36 pm Post subject:
Hey Bill, thanks for the input. It's always good to get different perspectives and that's what a forum like this is all about. It's not all that fun or interesting when everyone agrees on a subject matter.
It's interesting that you'd like Guthrie to have a more raw dry tone when some people have told me that they think Guthrie's tone is already too dry and they'd like to hear it more affected with delays, chorus, etc. I kind of see what you're saying, but I do also think that the audio from the internal mics of a $400 Mini DV with a built-in limiter affected the overall dynamic range on the DVD and the sound clips.
I thought Guthrie sounded great live, but as I mentioned earlier, I do think it could still get better. To my ears and sensibilities, he's about 85% of the way there. And I really don't think it has to do with gear. It's about his approach to the instrument, his attack and touch, and how he wrings the notes out of the guitar with his fingers. Guthrie has spent a greater portion of the past 10 years having to mimic other players and sounds for teaching and writing the GT columns, etc., so he's still working on nailing down what he could call his very own. I believe he's getting there. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
imo guthrie's sound is better with his erotic cakes stuff than with the fellowship. i'm not a huge fan of the chorus/schofield sound (just my opinion) i like a much drier sound for jazz type of stuff, but he always seems willing to try something else and it's always evolving very exciting to watch.
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