The reason Guthrie probably didn't take up the Shrapnel offer is because he didn't want to be bundled in with all the other guitarists in the "shred" category at the time. Also because he doesn't seem the type of person that would want the pressure of deadlines for writing songs/albums to be released. As well as releasing cheesy instructional videos.
He worked hard through teaching and gigging (I presume) to get where he is and although he may be a bit of a late starter compared to other musicians, he is certainly doing bloody well and he has his whole life ahead of him still.
I always thought this kind of thing would happen as soon as something 'Guthrie' orientated appeared on the web. There really isn't any need to compare guitarists of any style. Everyone sets out to be different. I'm 23 this year, I used to argue with my mates about who the best guitarist is when i was about 16.
At the end of the day, Guthries a nice bloke that likes to drink a lot of beer, thats good enough for me. If one day i can magically play anything near he does, i'll be chuffed.
I don't really give a toss about Guthries right hand. Lets remember he sounds like himself, and PG or JP sound like themself too. Lets try and be mature enough to realise that just because someones right hand doesn't look/act the same as your favourite guitarist, then someone is better/worse. It's crap.
Shredmeister. Your comment about not finding a song where Guthrie doesn't play fast just shows that you haven't bothered to listen to enough material. Theres loads of stuff, i believe Ed may have created a post somewhere about it.
Slow tunes try the Fellowships version of "Afro Blue" or "Summertime".. if we saying he doesn't compose slow tunes... that Mozart guy... what was it Emperor Ferdinand said to him? _________________ Fabulous powers were revealed to me the day I held my magic Suhr(d) aloft and said "by the power of great scale!"
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:20 pm Post subject:
It certainly matters NOT how many albums an artist has under his belt. No work is better than bad work as far as I'm concerned. And years of mediorcrity and/or irrelevance is much worse than an album or two that are worthy of note. Yngwie is of no real relevance now. He still rides on the success of his debut album 20 years ago and is, generally, more laughed at ("unleash the fooking fury") than respected.
As far as all those players who tried to capitalize on the shred frenzy, what about Joey Tafolla? How about Darren Householder? Michael Lee Firkins? David Chastain? Michael Fath? Bernd Steidhl (sp?)? Alex Gregory? Chris Impelliterri? Joe Stump? Vinnie Moore? MAB? Even with someone like Paul Gilbert, who really cares? When I mention these names, people ask, "They're still around???" What does it matter that any of these guys have a bunch of albums under their belt? Any bozo could record and release a CD from his bedroom these days.
Yngwie's got at least a dozen albums in his catalogue. All I know is that the first one is the only thing that matters and I'll never listen to a minute of any of his other CDs again - EVER. That goes for so many other shredders out there. I've sold most of their albums off saying, "Good riddance!!! At least I got some of my money back!" The fact that some of them have a bunch of albums means absolutely nothing to me. Yeah, Britney and a bunch of rappers and boy bands have a lot of albums as well that sold in the millions. One good album that you're willing to listen to over and over again is certainly a lot better than 10 that you'd rather throw away or sell.
I'm certainly glad that GG didn't take up on Varney's offer to record an album back in the early-90's. The whole "shred" or "many notes" kind of guitar-playing was at its absolute lowest rock bottom at that time and being lumped with that group would have guaranteed that GG was just another closet shredder with nothing new to offer. You heard the old saying: "You never get a chance to make a first impression twice." There are many with incredible chops. Ultimately, it's the intangible things like musicality, feel, taste, style, tone, etc. that will get an artist noticed, not how many notes one can pick in a second. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
You guys didn't read my post right. I'm not saying any one is better than anyone else. I replied originally about some one saying that Guthrie's picking technique wasnt up to scratch, blah blah blah and I just stated that it clearly was. I for one couldn't give two fxxx's whether someone has a smooth sounding picking technique or if they have to start on a downstroke or an upstroke.. who fxxx care's... I dont analyse players that way. That's a bit too anal for me.
I defended Guthrie's awesome picking which he has. I stated that Guthrie was silly not to take the Shrapnel offer. What had he to lose? Do you hear anyone referring to Richie Kotzen as a widdly shredder now? NO!! and his first album was very shred! Now he is known as being a stylish fusion/blues player with bags of technique to spare.
Alexkhan, just because you may have no regard for all those Shrapnel players doesn't mean they are of no relevance. I bet none of those guys regret their records. They may cringe when they listen back but so what? That was the cool thing then. Guys will cringe when they listen back to their playing of now in 20 years time. Albums are very important, what a stupid statement! If any bozo can make an album at home, so what? At least he makes the effort and puts his time and effort into such a task.
There are a lot of critics out there. How many of those have released their own recordings? that always sickens me! The guys critiscising are always the ones who are just bitter against others because they went out and done something. Who cares if its crap or not. Im sure Guthrie couldnt give a toss what anyone else thinks. Why should he. He is doing what he wants. If he never releases an album through his own choice ,then fair enough. But I think that would be an awful waste of a massive talent.
Albums are immortal!! And in 100 years time you can be sure those Shrapnel albums wil still be blazing. When a player dies all he has left music wise are his albums.. And im not saying the shear number of albums are important. I'm primarily a music fan. I buy albums like many music fans! If you think albums are not necessary, fair enough; your opinion.
If YOU think the shrapnel albums were pointless, fair enough, your opinion, but they have inspired many many of the worlds great players of today to get as good as they are. Do you think Guthrie didnt shape a lot of his playing off of those Shrapnel players? Damn sure he did!! Ron Thal? Shrapnel started him off and then he took his own route after that but he got his first break with shrapnel. Guthrie is a massive Ron Thal fan. I'm also sure that all the Shrapnel artists you mentioned are still plugging away with their music and you have no right to put them down just because you dont know what they are up to!
I am a fan of Guthrie because I have seen him play in person and I admire his amazing technique and I admire his modesty! I admire his perseverance to stick to what he wants to do. I dont think he is in a bad position but I think he could and should be in a better one as could many other players.
That is my point: Yeah he is doing well but like I have read in posts from nearly everyone in this forum, he should be up there with the bigger names. And he wont get up there with the bigger names without what? An album of course!!!!
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:24 am Post subject:
Hey AL, I'm not sure what we're really arguing about here. You have the right to criticize Guthrie for not having an album out yet and I have the right to criticize albums by many Shrapnel artists that I feel, to my sensibilities, are no better than dog poo. Yes, these are all opinions and everyone is entitled to them and that's why forums like these exist: to share opinions.
My basic opinion is that one should do it right and under his own terms rather than rush into something he's not sure about or have no confidence in. An artist should decide when he or she should release a work that will be put out for public consumption and scrutiny. Critics will always be out there because that's what the public wants to see. People want to read articles or reviews about music, new albums, new movies, new works of art that are written by people who specialize in those fields. It's such a cliche to say that critics are just bitter and jealous wannabes.
When the artist puts out an album or whatever, it no longer belongs to the artist. The rest of the world decides if it's good or not or if it's going to have any influence. And the artist certainly has no control over what people think once it's out there. But the artist can certainly decide to release or not release his or her work. Artists live and die by the consequences of how their works are accepted and perceived by the public. Whether the artist is a mega-million pop star or an avant-garde experimental artist catering to a tiny audience, they're still playing to an audience and there's a give-and-take relationship. The audience decides to take it or leave it. I certainly know what I'll take and what I won't and I'm sure that's the case with everyone else here. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
Go ME!, I rewrote AL's post to use paragraphs, capitilisation and a fair bit of punctuation. But do you know what people? Even after rewriting it, I still found it hard to read.
Albums are an anachronism, a media that no longer makes sense. Before the LP there was only singles and they had a B side because there was space on the other side for another tune. As soon as singles were mass produced we got the pop charts, record companies and a music industry exploiting third world countries, artists, creating noise pollution and raping one of man's only worthwhile contributions to the world.
You now have machines the size of a packet of cigarettes that can hold 100s of albums (it's a measurement that'll die out soon) so why bother storing 6 songs that are crap when you can tailor the sounds you hear more accurately? Why buy an album with two killer tracks and 7 tracks that make it plain that, at that stage, the band had few ideas for an album.
So now any guy can record an album in his bedroom, whoever coloured that to say it was a bad thing? I don't think Ed did. So that means music can be made cheaply without record companies, distributors and the like. Bands still crave "making it" so they make an album.. it's propaganda spun by the record companies.
Record companies are trying to get Europe to pass laws to ban file sharing, and vilify the whole thing as piracy, when in fact it's an industry fighting to suppress the technology that will make it redundant. The US has the DEC and RIIA swoop on people, making outrageous claims of piracy funding terrorism, when in fact what is happening is the modern day equivilent of letting your friends listen to a tune on your record player.
Make your own compilation, make it interesting, make it ecclectic and have it buried with you as a testament to your musical tastes. Now hopefully that'll make it plain that digital recorded media is the future and wireless networking and mini devices mean that a revolution similar to that of moveable type is here for music (which like DNA is information).
What is being done with Guthrie's tunes is largely down to the guy you're berating: Ed. He is selling the DVDs and CDs of The Fellowship with no margin (probably at a loss when exporting), he's extolling Guthrie's abilities to many big names and I think you should give him a (and us) a break.
I think you're being offered a more personal, less freeze dried pre-packaged product. A Guthrie album would be good, but there's more than enough to be getting on with.
And finally, "The guys critiscising are always the ones who are just bitter", that's plain wrong. Criticism can be an honest, well meant and accurate, my philosophy is that any criticism is useful; to write off criticism means part of you's afraid to improve.. keep an open mind. _________________ Fabulous powers were revealed to me the day I held my magic Suhr(d) aloft and said "by the power of great scale!"
I have the power!
Last edited by frankus on Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:50 am Post subject: Right Hand Technique
Hi there
In response to James...
I think it´s you who´s missing the point. I, for one, am speaking about right hand picking TECHNIQUE alone. In this subject, I really think the only relevant thing is how good technique is, not how good it sounds. Whether you like Lane´s sound better or you think he plays faster (highly doubt that) the fact that he has such big limitations to me shows lack of technique. And that is the only thing I am discussing here. If you want to discuss something else, let´s, but while we´re on this, please stick to the topic. It´s just senseless if we are discussing two different topics.
And it´s from that topic I am discussing Guthrie´s picking technique. Now, I totally understand it´s very clinical and cold to look at it that way, but it´s as good a topic as any other.
Now, if your talking about who´s command over the instrument is best, then I really think GG has very few players that can match his abilities. JP is definitely not one of them and neither is PG.
And on the whole releasing an album topic, I totally agree he should have. If Guthrie had focused on his career more, I don´t see how that could have been worse. But then again, that´s his own choice in life, and I don´t think it´s up to any of us to criticize it.
Cheers _________________ "Living comes much easier once we accept we´re dying"
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Right Hand Technique
ShredMeister wrote:
I think it´s you who´s missing the point. I, for one, am speaking about right hand picking TECHNIQUE alone. In this subject, I really think the only relevant thing is how good technique is, not how good it sounds. Whether you like Lane´s sound better or you think he plays faster (highly doubt that) the fact that he has such big limitations to me shows lack of technique.
*Smacks head repeatedly against the desk* What is the title of this thread? BEYOND TECHNIQUE! We are not supposed to be talking about mundane technique. You don't think how it sounds is important?! I think you really have missed the point. Last time I checked, technique was suppoed to create music which we LISTEN TO. And I think you can measure technique by how good it sounds; as MUSIC IS TO LISTEN TO.
What limitations did Shawn have? How do you know of these limitations? Please divulge this information to us...
... the illustrious J XXX
Last edited by James W on Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
Lets leave it here folks. For those thinking the same as me, all i'm thinking is:
Will, I like your thinking. This turning into a thread that is more about confrontation than discussion. If all we've got is five words to every exclamation mark, it's time to pack up and go home, you're message is being lost amongst "!!!!" and UPPER CASE SHOUTY WORDS.
Technique is technique, this was beyond technique (hence not in the technique section). Whilst Guthrie making an album is not about technique, that doesn't qualify it as "beyond" technique.
For my money, a really discerning guitarist can figure a lot about other guitarists, even his weaknesses.. this doesn't lessen the person being observed or, by itself, make the observer a better guitarist.
Since I was born on the planet Krypton, I have the ability to laser beam annoying posts and can freeze threads by breathing on them, so please give some thought before you post to this thread again. _________________ Fabulous powers were revealed to me the day I held my magic Suhr(d) aloft and said "by the power of great scale!"
Hurrah, me too. Me and Mrs Frankus will be sat near the stairs if I get there in time after the meal.
Mrs Frankus AKA Heather has expressed an interest in playing the guitar and also wants to talk to Seth about teaching our son. He's only 5 and teaching kids so young is possibly not his cup of tea, but she wants to see if he's got any insight as he teaches in the area.
This is me on the left:
I was verrry verry drunk... and I shall be so again, tonight _________________ Fabulous powers were revealed to me the day I held my magic Suhr(d) aloft and said "by the power of great scale!"
Alrighty, then Shredmeister is the one who started the thread called 'I thought I knew fast!'... we all know he's obsessed with technique; lets just ignore it...
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