Guthrie Govan Discussion :: View topic - Guthrie Jammed With Yngwie at ACM?
Help support this site by shopping at Amazon through our link.
Guthrie Govan Discussion Forum Index

Guthrie Govan Discussion
The Official Guthrie Govan Discussion Board

www.GuthrieGovan.co.uk

 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

 

 
Guthrie Jammed With Yngwie at ACM?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Guthrie Govan Discussion Forum Index -> Guthrie Govan Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
RD



Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 293

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jordan wrote:
the fact that he was playing nylon with a pick!!!


But that's no sin to me; in fact, I do it myself.

It IS possible to get a nice sound from that, but nylon just seems a bit less forgiving for pickstyle.

For instance, don't tell me you don't like John McLaughlin's sound...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wrighty-boyo



Joined: 12 Sep 2004
Posts: 75
Location: Wales, UK

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gotta say that Yngwie was one of the first players that got me into technique, and expressive vibrato. I couldn't believe my ears when i first heard him, it was mind bogglingly good!!!

I understand it when people say they are bored with him, but hey he's a master of his trade and we cant knock that. Nobody pulls off neo-classical with such raw feeling like malmsteen. All his new stuff is the same sounding but its his chosen style so its best to appreciate it for what it is and stand back in amazment.

Guthrie can do all malmseens chops amazingly close to the real thing, but its still not malmsteen and im sure Guthrie would stress the same point. They are both worthy of utmost appreciation!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Will



Joined: 09 Oct 2004
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only Yngwie album i liked was Rising Force 'Marching Out' i'll admit the vocals are a bit waily but there was hints of good songwriting on that album (vocal melody, not lyrics!)


back then i admit he was amazing, when i see or hear him play now i'm dissapointed. It seems to me that when he was younger he had a much broader mind for guitar solos. These days everything seems to work out of the same template (how many times on the G3 video does he do fast runs and bends the e string to oblivion?!) Rolling Eyes

Don't get me wrong, hes still fantastic and by all means if playing as humanely fast as possible is your thing, he's probably the man.


Theres a song on the marching out album which i'll post when i can remember what it is. At the end of the song, yngwie plays some of the most beautiful guitar i've ever heard him play. It sounds more soulful than any of his other stuff. I'd rather that than speed picking, chugging or pulling stupid claw shapes at the audience with your hand...

Ed is right, he showed promise as a MUSICIAN at one point in career, now hes just like a neoclassically programmed robot. On the G3 video, he could have had some kind of decency to try and fit in with the jam at the end, but he was off to the side playing lightning runs and spinning his guitar around his head. There was a part where vai and satch do their usual note harmony moving up a scale one at a time, and malmsteen is blowing over the top. Dissapointing....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
frankus



Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 1100
Location: Chelmsford/Arachnipus

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will wrote:
On the G3 video, he could have had some kind of decency to try and fit in with the jam at the end


UI think he could have had the decency to fit into his jump suit Wink
_________________
Fabulous powers were revealed to me the day I held my magic Suhr(d) aloft and said "by the power of great scale!"

I have the power!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RD wrote:
I agree with pretty much everything, Ed. But I never really liked Yngwie's songwriting because of the kind of singing it contained. I also never really liked Maiden; same reason.

I remember that, when having guitar lessons from an Yngwie fan, that I wanted him to put some Yngwie songs on tape, but I stressed to him 'only the instrumental ones!!'. That type of rock stuff just never was my thing. Isn't it true that he later on released another 'Rising Force' album that was exactly like the first?? Or perhaps the title was diffirent, perhaps it was 'War to End all Wars' indeed, like you said. Anyway, I had the EXACT same opinion about that as you; I heard the songs and was in complete disbelief that somebody, years later, would come up with the same thing. Malmsteen says in interviews that he doesn't like trends and in that Malmsteen - McLaughlin interview you mentioned (I know it), he also says he doesn't practise anymore. Well, maybe he should.

Although we are a quite like-minded on this stuff, I do have something to disagree on with you:

I don't think that Malmsteen is technically that perfect. This is especially to be heard when he's doing accoustic stuff; his pick attack sounds awful then and he doesn't have the accuracy & power as, for instance, Al DiMeola on accoustic. I think that DiMeola is one of the few who can really be just as accurate on the accoustic as on the electric guitar and still sounds very strong. Most electric fast players suddenly change style when playing accoustic and suddenly play more chords and easier stuff.

On electric, Malmsteen's technique is interesting to me because of his EASE of playing. I've never seen anything like it. But, then again, he (almost) always plays with distortion. I think it would be interesting to hear him clean sometime. Would be a nice change too.


You bring up a very good point about acoustic playing. It's quite obvious that he can't pick on an acoustic like he could on an electric. On the electric, he barely moves his thumb and index finger on his picking hand over the strings. It's like his pick glides or brushes over the strings rather than actually striking and releasing. He uses a very heavy pick (1.5mm Dunlop Delrin from what I remember) with a fairly light strings (at least on the plain strings) and Eb tuning, so you get an idea on what his setup is and how it's conducive to his style of playing.

Most rock/shred guys sound pretty anemic on the acoustic. It's like you can hear the initial attack but that's about all you hear. You don't hear the body of the note like you hear with guys like DiMeola and McLaughlin. The rock/shred guys tend to sound thin and it's as though they're not in control of the instrument. When they play fast on it, the tone of the acoustic goes right out the window. All you hear are the strings, not the woods of the acoustics they're playing. The whole approach needs to be different when playing an acoustic vs. an electric. A lot of rock guys take the same approach they have on the electric and simply apply it to the acoustic, but guys like DiMeola and McLaughlin approach the acoustic on its own merits.

It'd be interesting to see Guthrie delve into the acoustic later on. I know that he doesn't even own a steel-string at the moment, so I doubt that he could burn on one with the same control and finesse that he could on an electric. Heck, even Guthrie has so many hours in a day. Wink But his right hand technique is so solid and "proper" that he should sound really good on one should he decide to put the time and effort into playing an acoustic the way it was meant to be played.
_________________
Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Carlo



Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 408

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

after hearing his atroicious acoustic playing, maybe Yngwie should stay away from delving into other styles Laughing

being familiar with Yngwie's playing style, influences as well as his general view and attitude on things.....I'm kinda glad that he didn't expand into jazz, fusion, progressive, etc.....that would just be even more of a disaster,imo....lol.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
M@



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 214
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I was really blown away by the 84 Rising Force album and Marching Out was good too. For me, Yngwie has been going down hill ever since (How many more times can we hear E and A Harmonic Minor, Diminished and 3 Octave Appegio sweeps?).

I remember seeing my first Yngwie gig in about '92. It was at the Marquee in London (which for me was pretty exciting, being an Australian as a teenager and hearing all about the famous Marquee Club)... It was actually a good gig, but a few funny things happened:

1) During one song, Yngwie straps on a Gibson Flying V tuned to some horrible Low C# (gotta get that dark evil heavy sound, right?). Anyway, part way through the song he does the obligitory "throw the guitar over your back and hope to catch it again on the way round" move, however this time, the V got stuck on his back and he was left standing there on stage looking like a bit of a dick. I remember laughing quite loud at the time.

2) Before the Encores, Yngwie grabs his then new wife Amber from stage left and drags her onto the stage. He grabs the microphone and in that quasi-American-Nordic accent shouts "Yes, I'm a lucky man!" and then proceeds to give his wife a big snog in front of everyone! Talk about class act (NOT)!

What is interesting is the following week, Steve Lukather was playing at the Marquee as well, and he was simple awesome! I actually smuggled in a walkman to both gigs and recorded most of them on tape, but the tapes are long gone - probably lost somewhere between London, Sydney and Hong Kong Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
shredrulez
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M@ wrote:


Before the Encores, Yngwie grabs his then new wife Amber from stage left and drags her onto the stage. He grabs the microphone and in that quasi-American-Nordic accent shouts "Yes, I'm a lucky man!" and then proceeds to give his wife a big snog in front of everyone! Talk about class act (NOT)!



Rolling Eyes like artist, like man... never grow up! Rolling Eyes yeah, he's a viking alright...
Back to top
alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, guys. Let's not make this thread an Yngwie-bashathon. I'm guilty of it, too, and I apologize and I'm going to stop. He's an easy target but I don't think it's in the best spirit of what this forum is about to take shots at who is obviously a great player and a big influence on Guthrie. For one, I'd love to see Guthrie jam with Yngwie. Whether one "blows away" the other really isn't the point and I think that'd be a very fun thing to see. As some have pointed out here, Yngwie is truly great at what he does and so is Guthrie. Yngwie's been around a while and was an inspiration to GG as well as you and me. GG is still just starting out. The truth is that Yngwie paved the way for a new form of virtuosic playing in rock guitar.
_________________
Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jordan



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 161

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed wrote:
Quote:
It'd be interesting to see Guthrie delve into the acoustic later on. I know that he doesn't even own a steel-string at the moment, so I doubt that he could burn on one with the same control and finesse that he could on an electric. Heck, even Guthrie has so many hours in a day. But his right hand technique is so solid and "proper" that he should sound really good on one should he decide to put the time and effort into playing an acoustic the way it was meant to be played.


Hmmm....for the first time ever, I think I'm going to disagree with you Ed.
The ability to "burn" is not what an acoustic guitarist should be aiming for....certainly none of the great acoustic players (Bensusan, Emmanuel, Hedges, Simpson, Taylor etc...) are particularly known for speed - they're great players because of the extra dimensions they get out of the guitar.
This is why when you said "playing an acoustic the way it was meant to be played", my ears pricked up a little.

Look at Thomas Leeb for an example - no-one can ever say he's anything but an incredible acoustic player, yet I don't ever remember hearing him play anything remotely "burn"-like. His skill lies in the ability to make entire compositions out of a single guitar arrangement.

I think a alot of electric guitarists equate being a great electric player to being a good acoustic one. Sure, the left hand work is in place, but the right hand is normally pretty weak when plectrum skills are compared to good fingerstyle technique. I know people will disagree, but I think acoustic guitar should be played only with the fingers(!). Hence Guthrie's incredible right hand technique on electric won't necessarily mean that he would be a great fingerstyle guitarist in the leagues of Bensusan etc..

Anyway - whatever your opinions, at least we've got off the topic of "Yngwie-bashing"....I know Ed has been very supportive of Thomas Leeb and Eric Roche (both great acoustic players) at Tone Merchants, so absolutely no offense intended Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
M@



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 214
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm... you mention "I know people will disagree, but I think acoustic guitar should be played only with the fingers(!)."

I guess I will be one of those that will agree to disagree (strongly)... Have a listen to the album "Passion, Grace and Fire" for some truly amazing guitar (with pick and fingers).

Or anything by Strunz and Farrah for that matter.

BTW, I do remember reading back in a Guitar Player magazine (1985 I think) Yngwie mentioning Al Di Mieola as an influence... but we are digressing and splitting hairs here... each to their own.


Cheers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
James W



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acoustic guitar can sound great played with a pick, but ultimately sounds better using the fingers; observe how much better Paco sounded in the 'Passion, Grace and Fire' thing compared to two incredible guitar players using a pick. Also, using the fingers opens up a whole new dimention with the polyphonic/self-accompanying possibilities...

Perhaps nylon picks work best with nylon strings?


... Love James XXX
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
RD



Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 293

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it totally depends on your style. For certain things you need fingers, other things are better to do with a pick. I know I never liked playing an steel string accoustic with fingers, that's for sure. And I'm not even gonna start with finger-plectrums Smile

Anybody know Birelli Lagrene? When he plays in Django style (with pick) I totally love him. I have a nice video clip at home; I'll try to upload it if people are interested.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jordan wrote:


Hmmm....for the first time ever, I think I'm going to disagree with you Ed.
The ability to "burn" is not what an acoustic guitarist should be aiming for....certainly none of the great acoustic players (Bensusan, Emmanuel, Hedges, Simpson, Taylor etc...) are particularly known for speed - they're great players because of the extra dimensions they get out of the guitar.
This is why when you said "playing an acoustic the way it was meant to be played", my ears pricked up a little.

Look at Thomas Leeb for an example - no-one can ever say he's anything but an incredible acoustic player, yet I don't ever remember hearing him play anything remotely "burn"-like. His skill lies in the ability to make entire compositions out of a single guitar arrangement.

I think a alot of electric guitarists equate being a great electric player to being a good acoustic one. Sure, the left hand work is in place, but the right hand is normally pretty weak when plectrum skills are compared to good fingerstyle technique. I know people will disagree, but I think acoustic guitar should be played only with the fingers(!). Hence Guthrie's incredible right hand technique on electric won't necessarily mean that he would be a great fingerstyle guitarist in the leagues of Bensusan etc..

Anyway - whatever your opinions, at least we've got off the topic of "Yngwie-bashing"....I know Ed has been very supportive of Thomas Leeb and Eric Roche (both great acoustic players) at Tone Merchants, so absolutely no offense intended Smile


I think you've taken it out of context. There are as many styles of playing in an acoustic setting as there are in electric. I was talking specifically about single-note horizontal/linear style of playing using a pick. You're talking specifically about vertical polyphonic style of playing using all of the right-hand fingers. I was talking about Guthrie being able to play the acoustic a la DiMeola, McLaughlin, Tony Rice, Doc Watson, Doyle Dykes, Strunz & Farah, etc. using a pick. I wasn't even thinking about players like Leeb, Roche, Reed, Legg, Bensusan, Emmanuel, Andress, etc. when I made my comment.

IMO, both styles of playing are absolutely valid and I must say that I disagree that the acoustic should only be played with fingers. It is probably the most advanced way of getting the most out of the instrument, but there are certain things one could do with a pick that one can't with the fingers alone - save for the flamenco technique a la Paco DeLucia, which is widely recognized as the most advanced technique for the guitar. The few times I've seen Guthrie noodling on an acoustic, including a nylon-string acoustic-electric I had laying around at the shop, he was using a pick. Right away he reminded me of the Trio featuring DiMeola, McLaughlin, and DeLucia and evoked "Mediterranean Sundance" with his playing.

It's cool that this subject matter has moved onto acoustic playing - certainly beats the tired ole Yngwie-bashing. Wink I guess it started out with the comments that Yngwie sounded like poo on the acoustic on a DVD, which is understandable. We're all free to comment on what we liked or disliked. But as I was saying, there is "burn" style of playing on the acoustic as well and I was commenting on rock/shred type of players generally not sounding as full and in control as players like DiMeola, McLaughlin and other full-time acoustic players who play with a plectrum.
_________________
Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
RD



Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 293

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's all about having the whole dynamic range with your picking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Guthrie Govan Discussion Forum Index -> Guthrie Govan Discussion All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group