Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 7:40 am Post subject: Composed Solos vs. Improvised Solos
A lot of us have seen or heard several versions of Guthrie's tunes and I'm sure we've all noticed that the solos are always different. Guthrie's mindset is to improvise over the changes everytime he performs and the solos tend to be quite different from gig to gig. Certain solos stand out more than others and sometimes I wish Guthrie would perform a particular solo note-for-note on the next performance.
The "composed" solos are the ones that worked out beforehand and repeated over and over again in live performances. A good example would be David Gilmour's gut-wrenching solo on "Comfortably Numb". Of the virtuosic/shred variety, Vai's "For the Love of God" and Satch's "Always With Me, Always With You" stand out as composed solos that are very memorable.
I've seen Satch and Vai live numerous times over the years and they both tend to play their solos note-for-note "correct" and faithful to the recorded studio versions. I remember seeing Vai for the first time and was hoping that he would play the "For the Love of God" solo differently from the recorded version. He played it note-for-note "perfect" like the studio version and I remember being rather disappointed by that. I would have liked to have heard and seen a new different live version, but that's just me.
But then, when Guthrie played all those shows in January, I sometimes wished he would play certain solos note-for-note like some previous versions I heard. I figured it wasn't going to happen but I wished for it anyway. For me, the solos on "Ner Ner" from the clinic last year (Jan 24, '04) are just titantic in the way they developed and the way they were executed. I also love the legato solo on "Erotic Cakes" that evening but he would never play it in a similar way again.
Overall in a live setting, I prefer the improvised approach. But some guys want to see note-for-note renditions when they go see someone live. Some guys told me they were disappointed that when they went to see Yngwie that all of his solos sounded different and were "improvised". I dunno... To me, Yngwie's solos are pretty interchangeable: the patterns and the runs are pretty much going to be the same with him. Satch and Vai don't seem to improvise at all - which is fine with their fans.
We're still waiting for Guthrie's debut album and indications are that the playing and the solos are incredible. Pete Riley, the drummer, told me back in January there are some absurdly ridiculous stuff on there captured on tape that will make anything we've heard to date pale in comparison. So will Guthrie play those things note-for-note or will he improvise? Judging by what I've seen from him, my guess is that he'll continue to improvise the solos in live settings. But some solos deserve to be played for note-for-note. I'm hoping there's a nice balance between the two methods. _________________ Ed Yoon
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Joined: 19 Sep 2004 Posts: 125 Location: Over Here
Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 12:02 pm Post subject:
I've noticed that he does play some stuff very similar to the recorded versions (eg the start of the solo to Fives) but generally I prefer to hear improvised stuff.
I know what you mean about Vai playing stuff exactly as the record. Although it's nice to hear new stuff, I don't mind seeing him play the recorded solos as it helps with the "how did he do that" moments. The best I've seen him was on the "Sex & Religion" tour where for a lot of the songs he improvised for a while and then played the written solo so you got the best of both worlds.
There is an argument that most improvised solos are actually just previously learnt things played in different orders (eg a lot of Yngwie's improvisations are similar licks and ideas) rather than true spur of the moment creations. Saying that, even if GG is using familiar patterns, his vocabulary seems big enough that you don't get the "there's that lick again" feeling when he solos.
Joined: 08 Feb 2005 Posts: 80 Location: Uppsala Sweden
Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 12:54 pm Post subject:
I'd have to go with the improv approach if I have to choose. Nothing really beats the "where did he get that from"
mixed with the "oh man that's sweet" feeling.
I can't really speak about Guthrie on this topic since I've never seen/heard him play live.
But when it comes to Vai I kind of think that not improvising fit his songs.
They have a structured feel that makes the solo not stand out as a solo but rather be just the
natural continuation of the song(does that make sence ).
In the case of Yng, he usually play somewhat the same 4-5 different patterns with some 3-note/string arps
thrown in to "mix it up". I have to say, in his defence, that I've seen him live a few times and there has actually
been a few moments where he has "stepped out of himself" and played some amazing things.
This has mainly happened on covers though. _________________ Jesus saves, but Gretzky scores on the rebound
For me, improvising is mandatory. All the classical greats did it and were expected to, and I would never go see Satch or Vai live, and Yngwie just does pseudo-improvisation... after listening to Bitches Brew, or a live version of 'A Love Supreme' and you realise how improv is an obligatory part of music. Live albums of good improvisers are often better than the studio version, 'Powers of Ten' springs to mind...
improv all the way. and of the rock-oriented shredders or virtuosos or whatever you wanna call it, gg does it the best. satch and vai don't know how to improvise. well, maybe they do, but they don't during their live shows. yngwie... hmmm... he just plays the same patterns but doesn't play them in the same sequence. is that "improvising"? NOT!!!
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