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Fellowship gig - 16th June
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Bowks



Joined: 12 Sep 2004
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:01 am    Post subject: Fellowship gig - 16th June Reply with quote

Shocked

PS. Frank, it was good to finally meet you and your lady too. Hope you can make it to the next London drinkies so we can have a chat without that noisy bunch onstage (well, in the stairwell!)
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shredrulez
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dude, don't just give us a " Shocked ", - we all know that's a given - give us the lowdown on what transpired over there, will ya?!? Wink
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frankus



Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 1100
Location: Chelmsford/Arachnipus

PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay here's my description: Due to the number and demographics of people in the crowd, Guthrie had his shred abilities set to 4 (stun, with a mild ache behind the eyeballs when you wake up the next morning Wink) .. at least that's my excuse.

The entire band were on top form, Pete did a jaw dropping solo, Seth played some cool solos (he's got a real ear for brooding solos), Zak was playing melodies that frankly would never occur to my brain. Sam was jollying the procedings along with a gigantic hammond sound, a nice contrast to John's lush chordal carpet bombing.

It was a cracking night, unlike Trelloskilos, I've had to cut back on nights out (not sure why) so I get to see the band less frequently. When I was attending every week it was easy to be spoilt and want to mix elements from different nights, or pinpoint differences.. since I no longer go that often I just enjoy it for what it is, which for me is best Wink

As for set lists, they started with Summertime, beyond that the set list has changed beyond recognition but it were purely belter (for those of you familliar with the Bolton vernacular)

Eric Cartman wrote:

Guthrie offered to buy me a drink... who wants to touch me


Wink

Good to meet you too Bowks and yes I shall be at the London Drinkies on the 30th Wink
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

frankus wrote:
Okay here's my description: Due to the number and demographics of people in the crowd, Guthrie had his shred abilities set to 4 (stun, with a mild ache behind the eyeballs when you wake up the next morning Wink) .. at least that's my excuse.

The entire band were on top form, Pete did a jaw dropping solo, Seth played some cool solos (he's got a real ear for brooding solos), Zak was playing melodies that frankly would never occur to my brain. Sam was jollying the procedings along with a gigantic hammond sound, a nice contrast to John's lush chordal carpet bombing.

It was a cracking night, unlike Trelloskilos, I've had to cut back on nights out (not sure why) so I get to see the band less frequently. When I was attending every week it was easy to be spoilt and want to mix elements from different nights, or pinpoint differences.. since I no longer go that often I just enjoy it for what it is, which for me is best Wink

As for set lists, they started with Summertime, beyond that the set list has changed beyond recognition but it were purely belter (for those of you familliar with the Bolton vernacular)

Eric Cartman wrote:

Guthrie offered to buy me a drink... who wants to touch me


Wink

Good to meet you too Bowks and yes I shall be at the London Drinkies on the 30th Wink


Shred abilities set to 4? I'm guessing you're talking about on a scale of 1 to 4?

So, Guthrie is playing to the crowd, eh? Yeah, there's a side of him that wants to please the crowd somewhat, but the thing is, he enjoys shredding or playing a lot of notes or whatever you want to call it. He's absolutely unapologetic about it because it's a big part of what he's into. He's not going to play stuff that he doesn't enjoy. I mean, Paco DeLucia still burns. Lane burned till the last time he played the guitar. McLaughlin still does it. Jeff Beck is still a rocker with as much of an attitude as ever. I suspect that Gutrhie will always be the same in this regard as well.

Regarding that drawing, I'm hearing that kind of talk over here as well. Some people see that Sugi guitar played by Guthrie on "Ner Ner" and they go, "Hey, isn't that what Guthrie played on the DVD?" And they look at it and touch it in a reverent manner, hoping that some of Guthrie's karma would rub off on them. Laughing Once when Guthrie called me at the shop while he was in LA, some guy overheard me talking to him and afterwards asked me, "Hey man, was that Guthrie? Hey, can I touch that phone?" Laughing
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frankus



Joined: 13 Sep 2004
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Location: Chelmsford/Arachnipus

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing with Guthrie's performance seems to be linked to the the testosterone levels in the place.. so if there are stacks of young guys come to watch him shred on a guitar he will not disappoint or at the times when the local university is empty and all us old crusties get the place to ourselves.. there's less shred.

Personally I like music, so shred is entertaining from time to time. I still hold that the shred level was set to 4 ( although maybe it was 6 ) .. it wasn't 10 (Guthrie probably goes to eleven anyway Wink) that's not a detriment on his performance, I reckon he chose it that way.
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always feel the "shred" stuff that Guthrie does is well within the musical context that he's in, so it has never bothered me at all. There are times when he does more of it than other nights, obviously, but I guess it really depends on the mood. There's a certain excitement to playing fast and just letting loose and it's obviously most effective when it complements the music.

"Shred" is a weird term. When a sax or piano player plays as many notes you don't hear that kind of playing described as "shred". When a guitar player with distortion plays a lot of notes, it's called shred, often in an unfavorable light. It's typical of jazz or classic rock or blues type of guys hear Guthrie and say, "Well, he's just a shredder." Rolling Eyes And some will go onto say that he's a "very good shredder", but still a shredder. People have this stereotype of what "shred" is and it's hard to discard the baggage that comes with it, unfortunately...
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M@



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 214
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the word "shred" tends to have negative overtones... personally, I generally don't use the word as part of my music vocabulary.

I've yet to see Guthrie live, but what I have seen from the TM videos, Guthrie always using his speed tastily and in context.

Man, wish I was still living in the UK!!! I'd definitely be downing a few pints of fine ale with Frankus and the crew while watching Guthrie do his thang!!!

Very Happy
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frankus



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I gave this some thought the other day.

A saxophonist exhales and just blats the notes where he wants. It's probably more effort to hold a note than it is to flit to another.

Because it's so tied with the process of exhaling the dynamics of playing a note span many notes. So the mood of bunch of notes will be lumped together the notes don't really exist apart.

Also since the guy needs to breathe there is a natural means of enforcing phrasing. So there are phrases and inhalations, whereas some shredders (and not Guthrie) will play fast for very long and the speed of the passage loses it's meaning.

On a guitar, the concept of playing fast notes is not natural and takes practice, in some people there is a need to leverage this hard earned technique, and less charitable people might say "shoe-horn" this into every tune, purely due to the cost of learning it and trying to get a return.

Now, on the matter of shredding and Guthrie Cool. I don't really use the word shred with any colouring to denote approval or disapproval, like it's been said he plays all styles and dallies with each in a tune in any context, they're just another part of the pallete. I feel, and I may be wrong, but Guthrie adds a few extra pyrotechnics when there's a large number of (quite probably) guitarists in the audience.

To qualify it further, he may not be doing this consciously and he is almost definitely NOT doing this to boost his notoriety or freak people out*. I think all the band pull out all the stops to fire up a larger audience and get relaxed with a smaller audience. But that's just interpretation and to an extent worthless, except for the fact that it's my opinion and I hold it up so people can change it Wink

* But this does happen and he often seems bemused by this Wink
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WhereAmI



Joined: 22 May 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points Ed and Frankus. The thing that bothers me about these people who call themselves critics are just spewing out their pie hole about what makes great music and great musicians. Evil or Very Mad Most of the time these critics aren't even musicians so they don't know how hard someone really has to work to become a Greg Howe or a Guthrie Govan. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. Will great musicians/music ever get recognized by the mainstream audience? maybe not. Some just get buried and the treasure is left behind like One-Eyed Willie from Goonies. Razz They are later found by searching extensively for the map by a very small nitch of people that are in the know about music such as in these forums.
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I can't deny that I am a "shred" fan to a degree. Ever since I first heard Blackmore's playing on "Highway Star" and "Burn" nearly 30 years ago, I was forever smitten to follow that style of playing with that kind of lineage. Then it was Steve Howe, although none of what he did could be viewed as "shred". Then it was DiMeola, then EVH to a degree, and then Yngwie took it all to the stratosphere. Is it shred? Yes, I suppose it is. When shred fell out of favor in the 90's, it was almost embarrassing to tell people that I still dug Satch and Vai or that I was into Buckethead, Garsed, and Lane. When I was at Fender, I was like an outcast because that's the kind of playing I continued to follow when it was all about Cobain and Kenny Wayne Sheppard and everything else anti-technique.

We all know how one rotten apple could spoil the fun of many. The truth is that there were more rotten apples than good during the heydays of late-80's shred and the whole genre still hasn't recovered since. I do sense a revival (or rise from the dead Wink ) coming in the form of Guthrie, a rejuvenated Greg Howe, Brett Garsed, Bumblefoot, Mattias IA, John 5, and many other monster players who offer more than just sheer technique. It's almost as though that a new term needs to be coined for this renaissance of highly technical but musical and mature style of rock guitar playing. Shall we have a contest to come up with a term? Wink
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frankus



Joined: 13 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alexkhan wrote:
Shall we have a contest to come up with a term? Wink


Razz yay a competition Laughing

My offering is: post-shredonism.

as in, in these post-shredonistic days...
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alexkhan



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

frankus wrote:
alexkhan wrote:
Shall we have a contest to come up with a term? Wink


Razz yay a competition Laughing

My offering is: post-shredonism.

as in, in these post-shredonistic days...


Post-shred... Hmmm... that's cool but still has "shred" in it. Wink

I was using an online dictionary/thesaurus for synonyms of shred, fusion, virtuoso, etc. and no catchy terms whatsoever to even consider... Confused
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shredrulez
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey, what's wrong with shred?Evil or Very Mad shredrulez, ya know? Wink

but yeah, i agree that it gets a bad rap. the ones who gave (or continue to give) shred a bad name imho:

alex gregory
michael angelo
michael chastain
chris impelliteri
rusty cooley
francesco fareri
marshall harrison

to name a few... i'd say these guys head the long list of guys who prefer speed over any sort of musical substance.
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OU812Manny



Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex gregory
michael angelo
michael chastain
chris impelliteri
rusty cooley
francesco fareri
marshall harrison

SAY WHAT!

This is ridiculous. I started laughing when I saw your insane list and post. Michael Angelo has a last name. It is Batio. Out of everyone on your stupid list Batio is the ONLY one who has been signed to a major label. More than once, in several different bands. It is obvious you know nothing about him. Do you read any of the major guitar magazines? Do you ever visit Batio's site? All you can do is spew your insane rhetoric about how Batio and these other guitarists only play fast. What a crock of BS. If you knew anything about Batio you wouldn't have put him in your internet shredder list in the first place. Batio has his own unique style, is original, has a great tone, is an inventor and has established himself internationally in a really tough business. He could take all of you to school. For such guitar elitists, "you'all ned ta get learnt sompin 'bout gee-tar".
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shredrulez
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Laughing Laughing

geez, what are you? batio's internet police? Rolling Eyes funny how you show up whenever some people mention that they don't care for him. i sure don't. it's my opinion and i'm entitled to it. i've seen enough of his videos and listened to enough to know that i can't stand his playing and his music. and your juvenile ranting here sure ain't going to change my mind.

i'll be very polite about it. for my personal tastes and in my very humble opinion, i'd rather listen to britney than batio and i haven't heard a britney tune in years.
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