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Modal Vamps?

 
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drummondrs



Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 36
Location: Castles made of sand

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:57 pm    Post subject: Modal Vamps? Reply with quote

I was reading through The Advancing Guitarist and Mike Goodrick suggest you record some modal chord vamps. What does he mean by this? I mean what chords could I use for a say a Phrygian mode? Any help is appreciated
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dkaplowitz



Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 73
Location: Narberth, PA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A modal vamp is any chord progression that outlines a mode or several modes. I think of them as different from jazz standard progressions or bop progressions because those change keys/modes too much to be affiliated with any one mode.

Frank Gambale's method for creating modal vamps is a good place to start. Here's the method:

Take the IV and V triad of the "mother scale" and groove it over a "pedal bass" that is the root of the mode you are trying to capture. So, in other words, in C, the IV and the V triads are F maj and G maj. If you wanted to do an E phrygian modal vamp, play a groove with these chords: F/E | G/E. Play E phryg (or cmajor) scales over the progression.

The mother scale is C major. The phrygian mode out of C maj. is E phrygian. You play the IV and V triads of C maj. (F maj and G maj) with an E in the bass (E is the root of the Phrygian mode).

To hammer the point down some more, if you wanted to do an F lydian modal vamp (also from mother C), you'd take the same IV and V triads, but this time play the F in the bass. So that progression would be F maj | G/F. Play F lyd. or C maj. scales.

Enjoy!

P.S. You know that cheezy Spanish thing dudes do where they strum an open E major chord, then they move the triad (the fingers holding the A - D and G strings) up a half step? That's another phrygian modal vamp. (This time, E phryg.)

HTH!
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frankus



Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 1100
Location: Chelmsford/Arachnipus

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brilliantly explained Wink..

I got "modes no more mystery" (or "mawd nah maw misturee?" )and it wasn't phrased as clearly as that. Ta.
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drummondrs



Joined: 15 Jul 2005
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Location: Castles made of sand

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That really was an awesome explanation, thanks!
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Big Bad Bill



Joined: 16 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have that video too and have used this sort of vamp for practice sessions. But what if you want to produce a modal progression with a little more harmonic movement? Say with three or four chord changes? Would this even be modal or does this kind of harmonic change simply produce a major/minor progression? Any hints?
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dkaplowitz



Joined: 19 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad you guys found the explanation helpful.

Big Bad Bill, you can harmonize any modal scale and use chords from that scale. So if you harmonize C major, you get:

C maj
D min
E min
F maj
G maj
A min
B dim

You could use any combination of those chords with the modal pedal bass for any of the modes of C major. As long as they sound good to your ears, it should work out fine.

If the pedal bass thing gets boring to you, then you can come up with other chords and chord progressions that highlight aspects of the mode you're after. For instance, adding the #4 (or #11) to major chords will bring out lydian. Or you can use the b2 (or b9) of phrygian in various minor chords. Etc. etc.

That's just a couple of ways to explore it.

Good luck!

P.S. If you're into modal vamps, you should check out Frank Zappa's guitar solos. He was a real master of playing 12 minute solos over modal vamps, and he did some cool experimentation with it. The "Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar" series (3 albums/2CDs) is a great source of nothing but FZ solos. There are tremendous solos on other recordings of his too. If you want recommendations, I can give more.
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Big Bad Bill



Joined: 16 Aug 2005
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Location: Sheffield, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dkaplowitz, you have a real knack for making things clear! A true and rare skill!

Just to clarify a point, if I were writing a lydian modal chord progression in C (so it'd be F lydian-correct?) I could bring the 'lydianness' out further by introducing a sharp fourth (as this is what makes it different to the major scale) to any of the major scales, not just the Fmaj?

Do your teaching skills extend beyond music? If so, could you explain to me how Einstein used metrical tensor geometry in his general relativity. Wink
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jordan



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Bad Bill wrote:
But what if you want to produce a modal progression with a little more harmonic movement? Say with three or four chord changes? Would this even be modal? Any hints?


Bill,

Dkaplowitz has given some great advice - maybe I can put a different slant on it...

The mode can be viewed as being determined by the tonal centre. Take the chords listed above for the key of Cmaj. If you create a progression using these chords that starts with the Cmaj chord, the tonal centre of the progression (to the ears) will be Cmaj. No surprises, the Cmaj scale will work over these chords.

Now make another progression using the same set of chords, but make the Emin chord the tonal centre (eg. Emin - Fmaj - Amin - C). Now we've established Emin as the tonal centre, E phrygian is an approapriate choice. likewise, if we take the progression Dmin-Fmaj-Gmaj, D Dorian will be suitable (can you see the how?).

Although the pedal-tone idea suggested above is correct (and indeed emphasizes the idea of a tonal centre even more) it's not strictly required to create a modal vamp.

There's also the more 'jazzy' aspect of playing the changes, whereby you could change the mode used with each chord - so for the last example above use D Dorian over Dmin, F Lydian over Fmaj and G Mixolydian over Gmaj. Although you're technically using the same notes in each scale, the difference here would be in which notes you target over each chord.

As dkaplowitz suggested, the harmonization of a scale can be done to create a set of chords from the scale. The possibilities are almost endless - try harmonizing the harmonic minor scale into a series of chords. It's a great exercise, and will lead you to even wider sounds (Phrygian Dominant sits on the fifth degree of the harmonic minor - set up a modal vamp there and you're in Yngwie-land within seconds!).

Good luck experimenting, it's great fun when pennies start dropping all over the place....
Jordan.
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wuc



Joined: 14 Jul 2005
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Location: England

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Bad Bill wrote:

Just to clarify a point, if I were writing a lydian modal chord progression in C (so it'd be F lydian-correct?) I could bring the 'lydianness' out further by introducing a sharp fourth (as this is what makes it different to the major scale) to any of the major scales, not just the Fmaj?


Yes, it would be F lydian.
A #4 added to the F chord would enrich the progression...if you want that...but you can't go adding a #4 to every chord!

Take a look at the mode 'formulas':
ionian: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 (major scale)
dorian: 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7
phrygian: 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
lydian: 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7
mixolydian: 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7
aeolian: 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 (minor scale)
locrian: 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7

If we start stacking 3rds we get the triads that were referred to earlier. Carry on stacking the thirds to get richer diatonic chords:
ionian: maj + 7 = maj7
dorian: min + b7 = min7
phrygian: min + b7 = min7
lydian: maj + 7 = maj7
mixolydian: maj + b7 = dom7
aeolian: min + 7 = min7
locrian: dim + b7 = min7b5

Next, you could add a wave of 2nds, then 4ths, then 6ths...you end up with a richer, more complex, set of chords. Do you see where the F picks up a #4 and the other chords don't? As soon as your ear hears this, it strongly starts to define the musical context. If it were a plain old F major, we could be in a number of contexts...until the ear gets some more information (like the next chord...or a lead line).

n.b. bear in mind that, in practice, you might not want to include all the notes, either for clarity or practicality.

Cheers, wuc.
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dkaplowitz



Joined: 19 Mar 2005
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Location: Narberth, PA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Bad Bill wrote:
Do your teaching skills extend beyond music? If so, could you explain to me how Einstein used metrical tensor geometry in his general relativity. Wink


LOL, I wish! Have a head for abstract thinking, but not much for the requisite math for that kinda' stuff.

Anyway, it looks like Jordan and wuc answered your questions. (And I agree, the pedal bass is really only useful a very small percentage of time in real music.) If you have any other questions about anything but metrical tensor geometry, ask away. Wink
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wuc



Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 12
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jordan wrote:

The mode can be viewed as being determined by the tonal centre. Take the chords listed above for the key of Cmaj. If you create a progression using these chords that starts with the Cmaj chord, the tonal centre of the progression (to the ears) will be Cmaj. No surprises, the Cmaj scale will work over these chords.

Now make another progression using the same set of chords, but make the Emin chord the tonal centre (eg. Emin - Fmaj - Amin - C). Now we've established Emin as the tonal centre, E phrygian is an approapriate choice. likewise, if we take the progression Dmin-Fmaj-Gmaj, D Dorian will be suitable (can you see the how?).


Just want to add something to prevent misunderstandings...
Merely starting with a particular chord may not establish the tonal centre.
How about a ii V I (Dmin7 G7 Cmaj7)?

Cheers, wuc.
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