Guthrie Govan Discussion

[alexkhan]

This aspect of Guthrie's playing is what keeps many people interested through the tunes and the solos. If Guthrie's speed ranges from 1 to 10 (1 being the slowest and 10 being the fastest), he varies that speed from 4 to 8 within the same song or the solo and often stays in the range of 6~7, a speed in which our ears can discern the notes and follow the structure of the lines being played. So many chops-oriented players have very limited range: they either play all-out fast or real slow for some melodic lines but aren't good at playing interesting lines at medium to moderately fast speeds (say, 5 to 7).

I'd say our ears need variety in the same way our taste buds need variety in foods and flavors. We all get thrills out of super fast runs, but do we want to gorge on Filet Mignon meal after meal, day after day? When you look at a lot of speed-oriented players, they don't vary their speed very much. Things start becoming very predictable and you know what lines are coming, tune after tune, solo after solo. Guthrie will only play at the speed of 9 or 10 to accentuate the body of the solos that would most often be in the range of 5~8. For me, that's where all the interesting lines are. Personally, I just don't enjoy listening to super high-speed solos over and over again no matter how well-executed they are.

You mix up variations of speed, tempo, textures, arrangements, rhythmic structures, keys, etc., and your ears are piqued to follow what's going on from start to finish. How often do we just skp to the solos or sections of solos of monster players beause that's all we want to listen to instead of listening to the whole tune? The old adage is true: variety is the spice of life but the ingredients have to be mixed in a way that's tasteful and interesting to follow.

I've always felt that Satch did a very good job of this although his chops, by today's standards, really isn't up to par with some of the most accomplished players. What Satch lacks in picking chops compared to, say, Yngwie or Petrucci, he makes up with variety and playing interesting lines at varying speeds. When you think about it, some players just don't sound very good playing at medium speeds - they have to play super fast or real slow for some melodic lines in the verse or the chorus and that's it.

Besides Guthrie's stylistic range, it's this range of being able to vary speeds that I feel makes him so interesting to listen to. When you look at the truly great players who have amazing chops, they know how to play difficult and interesting lines at medium to moderately fast speeds. Surprisingly, it's an aspect that's often overlooked by many players and fans alike, especially amongst the shred/fusion aficionados. Sometimes I listen to or watch some of that stuff and go, "Why are you playing so many notes in that context? It doesn't fit. It's always the same speed."
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Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.

[sumis]

Hey Ed,

you're spitting out loads of great posts tonight!

[alexkhan]

Yeah, I was talking about alternate-picking and just the outright speed guys like Yngwie, Petrucci, Gilbert, Lane, Gambale, DiMeola, Buckethead, etc. have. The plain truth is that Satch just can't pick like these guys, but that certainly doesn't make him any "less" of a player. The same goes for Jeff Beck. Technical proficiency, especially when it has to do with speed, is highly overrated. Truly great players aren't recognized or remembered for speed or chops display. They're recognized and remembered because of the tunes and the music. Satch sure has a good size catalog of memorable tunes.
_________________
Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.

[geofffarinaisunderrated]

I completely agree. This is what really got me into Govan. I am a huge fan of players like Clapton, Allman, Gilmour, etc. For the most part I dislike shredders alltogether, unless they're really tasteful and can keep me interested. Buckethead can do it. Petrucci can do it sometimes, Jake Cinninger of Umphrey's McGee can do it. And boy, can Govan do it.

[Ballit]

You hit the nail on the head with this post, i´ve never thought about it that way. A player who mostly stays within a certain "speed limit" during solos completely makes sense for a lot of players. It kind of shows you how a player is or how creative he is during solos and that especially goes for players like Govan who tend to improvise a lot during theyre songs, you don´t always have to go supersonic just because you can

I usually don´t like shredding EXCEPT when i don´t have to mark a whole song or so as a "shredding" song if that makes any sense, and i think that´s ultimately the thing that i find so interresting in Guthrie´s music, the versatility. Because God knows the boy can shred but he does it only when he finds it´s going to fit the context of the song.

[Carlo]

yeah, another great analysis Ed

he really has very good control over his technique....so clear and precise, along with a great command of time. Most run-of-the-mill shredders, I feel, get stuck at a certain speed or tempo that eventually becomes their comfort zone and rarely trek above or below that area.

[dustinw155]

Wow, I'm really glad to see someone mention Jake from Umphrey's. I rarely see his name or Brendan's (other guitar player from Umphrey's) mentioned on any discussion board other than their own. Good call on that one. Their live show is awesome. I've seen them 4 or 5 times this year because it's hard to get decent guitar players locally here in Kentucky or the surrounding areas. Hum... what would it take to get Guthrie to come to Kentucky....all i have to offer is a 1.75 of Makers Mark or Woodford Reserve Bourbon whiskey. Please guthrie!!!!

[Sarang]

i find i like guthrie because of his ability to sound melodic at various speeds - fast, slow, medium, and all other points in between. too many chops players throw too much high-speed at you and it just becomes sensory overload. what makes guthrie so interesting to listen to is the constant variety. it's like you're listening to something for the very first time even if it sounds familiar.

[ShredMeister]

Yeah, I think you got a point there once again, Ed. I also think it may be related to the style of the artist and the type of music as well... For example, even when they use lots of different tempos, Dream Theater tend to play and write music at tempos with which sixteenth note triplet runs are "easy" (for John anyway) to play. That is a signature part of JPs sound. He does not usually phrase at medium-high speeds using sixteenth notes. That is more in the realm of Fussion-jazzy sounds, I believe, fast bebop lines, sort of thing. For example, Brett Garsed is a master when it comes to phrasing at those speeds. Lots of his songs tend to have a tempo with which he can play 16ths at 160-190bpm, and he is more comfortable there than playing 16th note triplets... But then again, DT would sound either too fast or too slow if the wrote songs at 160-190 bpms, I think... The style itself asks for something different.

In other words, I think that some guitar players are a bit tied up by the band they play in and the style of music they play, and that may affect their sound. In the case of GG, I think it´s not really that he can play at those medium-high speeds, but the cool thing is that he´s really not tied up by any standards, he does everything, and does it right.
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"Living comes much easier once we accept we´re dying"

John Petrucci