Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:41 am Post subject:
ShredMeister wrote:
Well, if you ask me, I donīt like GG as much as I like other players mainly for 2 reasons...
One is that he on purpose tries to stay away from the standard stacatto sound made popular by many players among who I like PG, JP, MAB, etc. I LOVE to hear that picking attack, love to hear that 'machine gun' approach, and that is something GG does not seem to like much, so he wants to stay away from it. Thatīs totally fine, his taste on that technique is not mine, so obviously I donīt dig his picking as much as, say, JPīs. Now, I am not saying he canīt pick like JP, but that he chooses not to, and I think that is good, I simply donīt like it as much.
The second reason is that I simply donīt feel touched by his compositions. They sound like fun pieces of music, but I have never been touched by them in the same deep way a piece like, say, 'Tender Surrender' touches me. There is some type of melodic content, some kind of emotional playing that appeals to me that I simply donīt hear from GG. On top of that, I think he tends to favor major progressions, whereas my taste tends to be more on the minor side.
I donīt know, I guess Ed is 100% right. Just a matter of taste. An artist is obviously gonna favor certain ways of writing music that are based on his taste, on his likes... The listener will or will not share that same taste and thatīs why we all like different players, I guess.
Hey, that's cool. It is all personal taste when you're talking about players who are all at around this level of playing and musicianship. Personally, I don't like to listen to that sharp picking attack type of playing that you're talking about and I feel that it's been done enough by many players. For one, I don't like the amp tone that one needs to set to get that type of a sound. I don't like to hear gobs of gain. I prefer a more organic "woody" type of tone in which I could hear the chracter of the woods in the guitar. But, as I've said, it's all personal taste and we won't shoot you down for having a different opinion! _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:55 am Post subject:
And as far as compositions, I think we have to wait until the album is out to really get an idea of what his composing and arranging skills are like in a pro recording environment. I've heard enough to say that he's improving by leaps and bounds and that I fully believe that the tunes are going to sound great. His knowledge of compositional theory, voice-leading, harmony, arranging, orchestration, etc. is, I think, quite exceptional, but we haven't really heard him put those skills to use yet - especially playing live in a trio format. It still doesn't mean that his compositions are going to move everybody. We all hear things differently. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
I think given the amount of emotional investment people put into playing guitar it is difficult to divorce that when they see Guthrie. He's not really your traditional guitar luminary with a lofty squint and a dubious wig.. he doesn't even have bad taste in clothes..or a KFC bucket on his head .. he could be one of us.
So people think they're looking in a mirror and comparing the reflection to their own self image. As with all reflection it's rarely a pure science as the tools used for measurement are themselves flawed. Vanity or self-criticism are involved.
I can't see what's to dislike, and I feel a little like I did when my brother told me I didn't understand music as I liked Kool and the Gang, Joy Division and Abba .. with hindesight I think he was applying some other quality to my choices than musicality, but given his age he had authority he believed he was right and I was convinced by his conviction. _________________ Fabulous powers were revealed to me the day I held my magic Suhr(d) aloft and said "by the power of great scale!"
Hey, that's cool. It is all personal taste when you're talking about players who are all at around this level of playing and musicianship. Personally, I don't like to listen to that sharp picking attack type of playing that you're talking about and I feel that it's been done enough by many players. For one, I don't like the amp tone that one needs to set to get that type of a sound. I don't like to hear gobs of gain. I prefer a more organic "woody" type of tone in which I could hear the chracter of the woods in the guitar. But, as I've said, it's all personal taste and we won't shoot you down for having a different opinion!
Yeah, I think thatīs the coolest thing about a discussion forum, reading and learning different opinions...
In any case, not sure where you are going with that thing about setting the amp in a certain way to get the sound I am talking about. I completely disagree, I donīt think it has anything to do with the amp, but with how you attack the strings. I think you are probably saying that because of PGīs tendency to play that twangy, trebly, 150% of presence kinda sound, probably? Well, JP likes exactly the opposite and his tone is one of the smoothest out there, just hear the latest G3 recording. But again, amp settings have nothing to do with it. I hear that same picking style I Love when PG plays clean tones, or even acoustic. In the same way, I hear it played by Al Dimeola and Mclaughlin. No, I am not talking about amp settings, or loads of distortion. I do love to hear the "woods" as well. Itīs just that GGīs picking is closer to, say, Shawn Laneīs in that they donīt like to mute, they donīt always pick all the notes, and sort of sounds like something "in between" picking and legato. I favor the picking that sounds strongly as such, and itīs all a matter of pick attack, not anything else.
As to whether itīs been done a lot... Well, I think that is a really weak argument. 99% of the techniques any guitarist can use have been overdone to death. GGīs approach to tapping is somewhat fresh, but I canīt say heīs the first to do it like that, not even close. Therefore I could say his use of tapping has been done too much... But I wonīt, because I donīt think that really matters. It is the way in which he combines those techniques that is his own and appeals to me. And that sound is what is fresh and cool. The techniques themselves have been played to death by many already. _________________ "Living comes much easier once we accept weīre dying"
And as far as compositions, I think we have to wait until the album is out to really get an idea of what his composing and arranging skills are like in a pro recording environment. I've heard enough to say that he's improving by leaps and bounds and that I fully believe that the tunes are going to sound great. His knowledge of compositional theory, voice-leading, harmony, arranging, orchestration, etc. is, I think, quite exceptional, but we haven't really heard him put those skills to use yet - especially playing live in a trio format. It still doesn't mean that his compositions are going to move everybody. We all hear things differently.
Of course, you have a point there. Letīs wait and see. I have no doubt that his theory knowledge is vast. A quick look into his improvising and you see a guy that is one with the instrument, and you can tell his knowledge and skills are incredible. However, as Mark Knopfler said once, "I have seen Jazz monsters completely destroy the feeling of a simple ballad..." Or something like that, canīt remember the exact words. A touching song is not always related to mastery of theory or harmony, many times is simply a feel thing.
But then again, you are right, letīs wait until he releases his new effort, I am sure itīll be amazing. Whether it is my cup of tea, I donīt know, but I am sure there will be lots of high quality music on that CD. I mean, itīs taken forever, itīs gotta be good... (sorry, easy joke) _________________ "Living comes much easier once we accept weīre dying"
Joined: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 570 Location: gothenburg, sweden
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:41 am Post subject:
ShredMeister wrote:
But again, amp settings have nothing to do with it. I hear that same picking style I Love when PG plays clean tones, or even acoustic. In the same way, I hear it played by Al Dimeola and Mclaughlin. No, I am not talking about amp settings, or loads of distortion. I do love to hear the "woods" as well. Itīs just that GGīs picking is closer to, say, Shawn Laneīs in that they donīt like to mute, they donīt always pick all the notes, and sort of sounds like something "in between" picking and legato. I favor the picking that sounds strongly as such, and itīs all a matter of pick attack, not anything else.
Well, wouldn't you say that PG mostly mixes picking and legato? He's sound is to me really and fluid smooth most of the time, not staccato at all. But of course, he's not afraid to use his straight speed picking stuff, and I got to admit that it makes me kind of hard It certainly has inspired me to many practice hours since the release of Street Lethal almost 20 years ago. But I wouldn't say that it is his main tool.
I got to agree with Vai who once said about Dimeola that he had the utmost respect for him, but missed the digging in to the strings and wailing blues bends. I certainly love the more slippery elements of guitar playing, since they can more or less only be done on (electric) guitar, and Dimeola is using a very limited part of the guitars palette, mostly playing very percussive. But he does it with such mastery! I like Dimeloa for what he does and Brett Garsed for what he does. I like GG's picking sound and I like Petrucci's picking sound.
Hell, I like them all (even MAB in a Monty Python way).
I can see why you love that hard percussive picking sound, I love it myself. But it is probably one of the least guitar specific sounds available on the guitar.
Well, wouldn't you say that PG mostly mixes picking and legato? He's sound is to me really and fluid smooth most of the time, not staccato at all. But of course, he's not afraid to use his straight speed picking stuff, and I got to admit that it makes me kind of hard It certainly has inspired me to many practice hours since the release of Street Lethal almost 20 years ago. But I wouldn't say that it is his main tool.
I got to agree with Vai who once said about Dimeola that he had the utmost respect for him, but missed the digging in to the strings and wailing blues bends. I certainly love the more slippery elements of guitar playing, since they can more or less only be done on (electric) guitar, and Dimeola is using a very limited part of the guitars palette, mostly playing very percussive. But he does it with such mastery! I like Dimeloa for what he does and Brett Garsed for what he does. I like GG's picking sound and I like Petrucci's picking sound.
Hell, I like them all (even MAB in a Monty Python way).
I can see why you love that hard percussive picking sound, I love it myself. But it is probably one of the least guitar specific sounds available on the guitar.
There's so much music ...
.
You are right, but you are speaking about PG today, and when I thought of him for that example I was thinking more of his early days, when he relied on his picking a lot more, like on the Intense Rock I video. In my opinion, heīs sadly gone into that hybrid sound now, which I donīt like nearly as much, but hey, itīs his taste, and I guess that hybrid approach does not require him to practice as much as strict alternate picking does.
I do love other styles. I love legato, and specially Brettīs, but GGīs is also incredible... I love tons of techniques myself as well, but my favorite is undoubtedly agressive alternate picking, and if it is combined with other techniques, I think it is perfect. On the other hand, if a player does not do it, I mostly have the feel that that guy is missing something. There are very few players who donīt play agressive alternate picking and make me not miss it at all. Iīd say Brett is one. On GGīs playing I do miss it. _________________ "Living comes much easier once we accept weīre dying"
Joined: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 570 Location: gothenburg, sweden
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:36 am Post subject:
ShredMeister wrote:
In my opinion, heīs sadly gone into that hybrid sound now, which I donīt like nearly as much, but hey, itīs his taste, and I guess that hybrid approach does not require him to practice as much as strict alternate picking does.
Well, maybe he likes dynamics in his playing Seriously, kudos to your specific taste in guitar playing. You know what you like, and that's cool. And you can give arguments for it. But your stance is of a kind that just encourages me to tease you a little. The sentence of yours that I've quoted is bound to be a classic. I think PG would love it!
But your stance is of a kind that just encourages me to tease you a little. The sentence of yours that I've quoted is bound to be a classic. I think PG would love it!
(I haven't forgot it's a question of taste.)
I think it's a good thing that you feel bad about "teasing him a little"; it made me feel bad about wanting to tease him a lot
There's a sketch show here called Little Britain and on it a character caller Mr Mann:
every week the guy walks into a shop and asks the shop keeper for obscure items like a painting of an angry owl, a film with Chevy Chase and Will Smith as cops who go under cover as rap artists to break a russian drug smuggling cartel.
Each week the shop keeper comes unnaturally close to finding a match. I've got a painting of an angry eagle owl would that do? ... no it looks more indignant than angry . I've got a film starring Chevy Chase and Mel Smith as cops who go undercover as rap artists to break a russian drug smuggling cartel (to which the shop keeper asks "has it been made yet?". "No, but I'll wait" and Mr Mann stands there expectantly in the shop, answers his mobile "could you phone back, I'm busy")..
I guess I just find it alien that anything other than a panda should have such a rarified diet. _________________ Fabulous powers were revealed to me the day I held my magic Suhr(d) aloft and said "by the power of great scale!"
Joined: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 570 Location: gothenburg, sweden
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:11 pm Post subject:
frankus wrote:
every week the guy walks into a shop and asks the shop keeper for obscure items like a painting of an angry owl, a film with Chevy Chase and Will Smith as cops who go under cover as rap artists to break a russian drug smuggling cartel.
Each week the shop keeper comes unnaturally close to finding a match. I've got a painting of an angry eagle owl would that do? ... no it looks more indignant than angry . I've got a film starring Chevy Chase and Mel Smith as cops who go undercover as rap artists to break a russian drug smuggling cartel (to which the shop keeper asks "has it been made yet?". "No, but I'll wait" and Mr Mann stands there expectantly in the shop, answers his mobile "could you phone back, I'm busy")..
I guess I just find it alien that anything other than a panda should have such a rarified diet.
I could delete the posts.. but then the pathos would be lost. _________________ Fabulous powers were revealed to me the day I held my magic Suhr(d) aloft and said "by the power of great scale!"
Well, maybe he likes dynamics in his playing Seriously, kudos to your specific taste in guitar playing. You know what you like, and that's cool. And you can give arguments for it. But your stance is of a kind that just encourages me to tease you a little. The sentence of yours that I've quoted is bound to be a classic. I think PG would love it!
(I haven't forgot it's a question of taste.)
Well, first news I got that dynamics are only achivable by not picking every note... Wasnīt it PG who dedicated a good portion of his second instructional video to teach picking dynamics? Please, donīt confuse different techniques with broad dynamics. A good picker like PG can add as many dynamics as he wants to his picking, no need to play legato at all... I guess that is the same reason why GGīs does not play as strong a pick attack... Dynamics again? Yup
So you liked the phrase? There is a lot more where that came from... _________________ "Living comes much easier once we accept weīre dying"
Joined: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 570 Location: gothenburg, sweden
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject:
ShredMeister wrote:
Well, first news I got that dynamics are only achivable by not picking every note... Wasnīt it PG who dedicated a good portion of his second instructional video to teach picking dynamics? Please, donīt confuse different techniques with broad dynamics. A good picker like PG can add as many dynamics as he wants to his picking, no need to play legato at all... I guess that is the same reason why GGīs does not play as strong a pick attack... Dynamics again? Yup
So you liked the phrase? There is a lot more where that came from...
Don't take me too seriously. I'm don't think picking has to be undynamic while legato always is. I'm just trying to bullshit in a friendly way, although I always kind of mean what I say.
Yes, I liked the phrase, and "no need to play legato at all..." proves that there really was more from where it came.
Everything cool with you Mr ShredMeister? 'Cause I'm cool with you
I love tons of techniques myself as well, but my favorite is undoubtedly agressive alternate picking, and if it is combined with other techniques, I think it is perfect. On the other hand, if a player does not do it, I mostly have the feel that that guy is missing something. There are very few players who donīt play agressive alternate picking and make me not miss it at all. Iīd say Brett is one. On GGīs playing I do miss it.
Does anyone else find it slightly ridiculous having a favourite-sounding technique... FFS it is just silly...
Can you imagine two pianists having a discussion about how they prefer a piece of music because more of the notes are slurred or whatever... phrasing is NOT the main part of the music... it is the notes and rhythms that count.
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It certainly has inspired me to many practice hours since the release of Street Lethal almost 20 years ago. But I wouldn't say that it is his main tool.
.. and now I feel bad 
