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European or British "Flavor" in Guthrie's Playing

 
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:31 am    Post subject: European or British "Flavor" in Guthrie's Playing Reply with quote

I'm not sure what that would be or if it can be described, but Guthrie's style does have something distinctively British or European that's different from American-based guitarists. It's really hard to say what that "flavor" is, but Guthrie doesn't sound like American-based guitarists (Vai and Satch, for starters) playing in a similar vein. Do any of you guys notice this or feel the same? If you do, what do you think those characteristics are?

Also, while we're on this subject, I wonder why certain guitar players are so popular over in Japan and places like Korea in Asia while having hardly any sort of a following in the States or Europe. And of course there are players who are fairly big in the States and don't have much of a following in Asia. For whatever reason, Guthrie's style hasn't really caused a stir in Japan or the rest of Asia yet. I know that many Asian guitar fans are checking out my site and I have connections there, but the interest in Guthrie hasn't kept pace with the interest here in the States and in Europe.

Seems Mattias IA Eklundh is already huge over in Japan. They also love Paul Gilbert, Yngwie, Blackmore, and a bunch of others who aren't really all that followed anymore here in the States. Vai and Satch have never been that big in Japan, not comparably to the rest of the world at least and that always struck me as odd or interesting. They have a certain taste that's way different (generally speaking) from that of the States and Europe.

I'm a native Korean, so I get to visit Korea every now and then and I flip through the Japanese guitar magazines when I visit the newstands and they're so into different things that we wouldn't be into here. I also understand that Neil Zaza is a big deal over there while over here, people go, "Neil WHO?" Can't believe that Neil Zaza had a concert in a city in Korea for over 15,000 fans! Shocked To tell you the truth, I don't think I've heard anything by Neil Zaza - perhaps a few little clips that didn't impress me very much.

What I've noticed is that the Asian rock/shred guitar fans, very broadly speaking, like to listen to lines that are very melodic and diatonic in nature, almost melancholy at times (especially with ballads). That's why Gary Moore is so popular over there and you hear "Parisienne Walkways" and "The Loner" in almost every cafe you walk into. They don't seem to like lines that venture outside (a la jazz) or have that Lydian or Mixolydian type of flavor. They mainly seem to prefer Aeolian and some Harmonic Minor kinds of stuff a la Yngwie and other neoclassical shredmeisters.

I have sent out a few Guthrie clinic DVD's to Korea and Japan but have never heard back. For whatever reason, Guthrie's style isn't going over as rapidly over there as it is going over here in the States or in Europe and Australia (where I've sent dozens of copies). Not to belittle their tastes, but I don't think Asian rock/shred fans really get into harmonically sophisticated or challenging music. To them, it must be some "spice" that don't suit their tastes. I can tell you that I'm generally not into what they're into over there in the guitar world although there are obviously some exceptions here and there. I get the sense that Guthrie's style and music will have a harder time penetrating Asia than the US and the rest of Europe.

But getting back to the subject on hand, I do think that there is something kind of European or British in Guthrie's musical style - some sort of "sophistication" or "styling" that's rather hard to pinpoint. But I'm sure you guys all feel it like we have already felt it with the great British bands/artists compared to the great American bands/artists. Well, please share your thoughts on this matter since Guthrie is a noble Englishman and a proud Brit! I especially look forward to hearing from all the other forum members from the UK. Smile
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jordan



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 161

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny, I heard Guthrie was doing very well in Asia Wink

You have a good point, which to over-simplify could maybe be explained by use of colours/tones in playing?
eg. Marty Friedman (and Jason Becker) were/are, I believe, very popular in the far east. Is it a coincidence that much of Friedman's style is based around exotic sounding scales which originated in the far east? The same could be stretched for Yngwie etc...
(I may be totally wrong here, just punting forward a suggestion!)

This doesn't really answer your question about Guthrie though, so I'm not really being that much help Embarassed

One thing I will quote, which Steve Vai recently said in an interview regarding the crowd attendances of G3 concerts, is that "people will always enjoy seeing sombody play the sh!t out of a guitar", and he's always going to do that. As long as there are people like Vai and Guthrie doing this and pushing things forward, I'll be happy to buy and listen to it.
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frankus



Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 1100
Location: Chelmsford/Arachnipus

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's to be expected that different musics get different reactions in different countries.

As I recall "Ballad of Bobby Brown" by Frank Zappa was played non-stop on the dance floors of Sweden despite having the lyrics "with a spindle up my butt till it makes me scream" (one of the tamer lines Wink).

It's not just music, the French like Jerry Lewis. LIKE him Shocked

I reckon that rhythmic pattern of speech define some music and English in all it's declinations Wink displays a wanton disregard for meter in every day use. European languages are chained to a rhythm as is Welsh.

Scales using different scale steps in different countries might make popular european scales seem dissonant, maybe other scales are closer to the local scales..
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Carlo



Joined: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 408

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you Ed

I buy the Japanese magazine, Young Guitar, almost every month and it's obvious these people LOVE shred metal as well as pop. But I haven't really seen them do a full feature on jazz or fusion guitar players.

They come often with DVDs and there's a section promoting MI Japan, and most of the instructors that they feature are neo-classic shredheads....yuck. And they show students jamming over nothing but cheesy 80s-sounding riffs.

Anywho.....you're point about Guthrie...I think I know what you mean. I get a similar feeling with Jan Cyrka....I mean he has the same melodic sensiblity of a Satch or Vai...but there's definitely a unique quality in his playing that one can say is British.
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alexkhan



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
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Location: Chino, CA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I don't think it's just a matter of scales because for the most part, they all play the same scales (the diatonic modes and pentatonic) - espeically in the pop/rock/shred format. I think it's the choice of the notes (or patterns and runs) within the commonly used scales and the phrasing that either appeals to a certain type of broad audience or not. Asians, actually, do not listen very much to their own classical or exotic scale (the ones without the thirds) derived music. Great majority of them think the stuff is quaint and feel that it just belongs in a museum or a historical institution of some sort, not in their CD players.

Guthrie's style has a certain brew that's melodic and diatonically-based but has enough infusion of outside playing and some exotic elements that some adventurous listeners would really love (like most of us here) and that some probably wouldn't get or enjoy a whole lot. Guthrie is fusing a lot of different styles into something new, different and fresh while retaining things that are familiar. My thoughts are that if the listeners are somewhat narrow in their tastes in what they like to listen to, all these other musical styles and influences that Guthrie assimilates in his playing would elude some and not be appealing to them. I do believe that we Guthrie fans genuinely enjoy a very broad base of musical genres and styles.
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