I just got the CD yesterday and all i can say is .....
The guitar tones immediately stood out; they're so beautiful and organic, almost three-dimension-like.
Some things I didn't like...
-the weird solo and mooger frooger parts in Erotic Cakes. I really liked the way he played that section during the Cornford DVD clinic. I wished he approached it in a similar way here, and less like the original recording with Jamie. But the clinic DVD was my first real Guthrie experience, and I must have watched it a thousand times by now. So I guess I'm just not used to hearing it played so differently. I guess it will take a few listens to appreciate.
-RK's solo on Ner Ner, it's beautifully executed, but I just wished it didn't fade out so abruptly. They should have just let that note sustain out naturally, imo. It's a small gripe, but it's kinda annoying me, lol.
But still, the CD is technically breathtaking through. All the songs immediately grew on me. They all show a unique side of Guthrie's musical personality, but we all know that it's not all of them!
I can't wait for the next Guthrie CD. Where does he go from here?
Joined: 13 Apr 2005 Posts: 173 Location: Manchester, England
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:21 pm Post subject:
Carlo wrote:
I can't wait for the next Guthrie CD. Where does he go from here?
I was thinking that myself, but I have the feeling that Guthrie has plenty more up his sleeve...
Just listening again for the upteenth time, it's different every time I listen, anyone else notice that? I keep hearing new things each time I play it...
One thing I'm getting from the album, apart from the unbelievable playing and guitar tones and textures, is how bloody great the songs are... It's definitely lived up to my expectations which were H U G E!!
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:30 pm Post subject:
treeduck wrote:
Just listening again for the upteenth time, it's different every time I listen, anyone else notice that? I keep hearing new things each time I play it...
One thing I'm getting from the album, apart from the unbelievable playing and guitar tones and textures, is how bloody great the songs are... It's definitely lived up to my expectations which were H U G E!!
You're preaching to the choir here! Now go say it somewhere else!
Seriously, I totally agree. I just can't get myself to listen to anything else at the moment as it seems like there's something new to discover with each listening. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
Definately still digesting. The album and I guess Guthrie's playing is a little in the 'modern fusion' category for me- that said this is the only album in that style that I can actually listen to without getting bored, so for guys big on this style this must be one of the greatest albums out there.
My favourite tracks are definately
Ner-Ner - Also liked the liner notes imagery for this track
Erotic Cakes - I don't like to compare guitarists but to me this track is like Bumblefoot meets Derek Trucks- which is a surprising and frighteningly good mix
.
Eric - Having bought the ER Tribute album I knew this track quite well, but it has really stood the test of time.
Other mentionable moments/tracks are:
Rhode Island Shred - A real fun track, with a jump starting beginning. Special mention to BBF for his guest part, the double stopped part after his solo is sublime.
Slidey Boy Really liked the way the guitar and bass played together on this track, not to mention the percussive guitar sections.
I'd like to hear some of this stuff recorded live with some occasional additional instruments, give a bit of a Weather Report vibe to it.
Just got it this afternoon. I've only been able to listen to about half the tracks on my PC. Even in that meager sound quality, it delivers the goods...IN SPADES! It never ceases to amaze me how players of this caliber aren't household names. Tomorrow it gets to be cranked in my car all day long since I'm on the road. Good times ahead!
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject:
Carlo wrote:
Some things I didn't like...
-the weird solo and mooger frooger parts in Erotic Cakes. I really liked the way he played that section during the Cornford DVD clinic. I wished he approached it in a similar way here, and less like the original recording with Jamie. But the clinic DVD was my first real Guthrie experience, and I must have watched it a thousand times by now. So I guess I'm just not used to hearing it played so differently. I guess it will take a few listens to appreciate.
-RK's solo on Ner Ner, it's beautifully executed, but I just wished it didn't fade out so abruptly. They should have just let that note sustain out naturally, imo. It's a small gripe, but it's kinda annoying me, lol.
But still, the CD is technically breathtaking through. All the songs immediately grew on me. They all show a unique side of Guthrie's musical personality, but we all know that it's not all of them!
I can't wait for the next Guthrie CD. Where does he go from here?
Hey Carlo, cool to know that you really dig the album.
Yeah, that version of 'Erotic Cakes' at the TM clinic is so awesome and we've watched it so many times and we had gotten used to it. I certainly preferred the clinic DVD version over the 'Introducing...' EP, but I think the mood of this song is supposed to be a little chaotic and weird. This new version on the CD is definitely growing on me. It'll take a while when we're used to seeing and hearing something else for so long.
I've seen Guthrie numerous times live and saw the other bootleg snippets on the net and he simply never plays a solo the same way again. Sometimes we wish that Guthrie would play certain solos exactly as he did on those DVD's, but they were totally improvised and reflect what Guthrie was feeling and thinking musically at that particluar moment in time. We know Guthrie is capable of playing the solos note for note again if he wanted to, but he improvises when it comes to solos and it seems he really doesn't want to repeat himself.
I also really loved Guthrie's playing on the clinic DVD's version of 'Ner Ner' with that Sugi 'Bat' guitar. Personally, I prefer that version of his playing on it over the 2005 Live DVD version. It just seems he was in a zone where the melodic ideas flowed effortlessly like a stream of water flowing down a mountain creek, you know? It was like he couldn't play a bad note or a bad phrase even if he tried. That being said, the new CD version of 'Ner Ner' has really grown on me as well. The sounds are so friggin' spectacular and there is more energy and attitude to his playing than the DVD versions.
The thing is we have to accept him as an improvisor when we see him live. He simply won't duplicate the solos note-for-note. Look at all the wildly different versions of 'Fives'. On two of the versions, it smokes with rapid alternate-picking runs and two versions have amazing 8-finger tapping legato runs (including the CD version). So, it'll always be different. And that's the real fun thing when seeing Guthrie live. You never know what to expect, even when you're pretty familiar with his material. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:29 pm Post subject:
art wrote:
The album and I guess Guthrie's playing is a little in the 'modern fusion' category for me- that said this is the only album in that style that I can actually listen to without getting bored, so for guys big on this style this must be one of the greatest albums out there.
To me, Guthrie is a rock player, first and foremost. But I know what you mean. He has absorbed and just plays other styles so well that they seep into what are fundamentally rock songs and you get some heavy elements of "fusion". Personally speaking, I can't say I'm a fan of what is typically considered fusion. I like to feel some balls and aggressive punch in the music with this kind of guitar playing. And that's why I dig this album so much, it's got that rock energy and attitude in every song - even 'Slidey Boy'. Tunes like that can easily get fluffy and wimpy, but Guthrie keeps it rocking. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
I also really loved Guthrie's playing on the clinic DVD's version of 'Ner Ner' with that Sugi 'Bat' guitar. Personally, I prefer that version of his playing on it over the 2005 Live DVD version. It just seems he was in a zone where the melodic ideas flowed effortlessly like a stream of water flowing down a mountain creek, you know? It was like he couldn't play a bad note or a bad phrase even if he tried. That being said, the new CD version of 'Ner Ner' has really grown on me as well. The sounds are so friggin' spectacular and there is more energy and attitude to his playing than the DVD versions
Yeah, I really love how he kicks off Erotic Cakes and Ner Ner in the CD, it's so intense and delivered with so much authority, even more so than the DVD versions. It really sounds like he means business, as if he had a lot of pent up technical rage he's been dying to release, lol. Actually I get this feeling from him throughout many parts of the CD. There are just way too many "f*ck me" moments to mention here.
In the clinic DVD ver of Ner Ner, I loved the whole raw vibe of it all and his solos just flowed beautifully. And the way he sustained that note towards the end, the vibrato...the feedback...and that surprised look on his face was like a cherry on top of an awesome performance, hehe...too sweet.
I do love the fact he plays the same songs differently each time. There are times he takes things completely left field, but there's always something to love and leaving you wanting more.
Joined: 13 Aug 2006 Posts: 64 Location: Maryland, USA
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:27 pm Post subject:
I've listened to the CD about 4 times and after that I needed a break (or some lyrics), so I began listening to Zappa. I need to listen to the disc more. I want to write what I think about it, but my thoughts haven't cemented yet. I just can't think of how I'd like to vocalize/textualize my ideas.
There is one thing that IS for certain with me though, and that is that I get the biggest "Black Napkins" feeling from "Hangover". It's as if Zappa's song is pre-drink and Guthrie's is post-drink. I'm not sure if anyone else feels this way, but as soon as the song starts I feel there's a similarity there. _________________ My mind still refuses to acknowledge my existence...
The album and I guess Guthrie's playing is a little in the 'modern fusion' category for me- that said this is the only album in that style that I can actually listen to without getting bored, so for guys big on this style this must be one of the greatest albums out there.
To me, Guthrie is a rock player, first and foremost. But I know what you mean. He has absorbed and just plays other styles so well that they seep into what are fundamentally rock songs and you get some heavy elements of "fusion". Personally speaking, I can't say I'm a fan of what is typically considered fusion. I like to feel some balls and aggressive punch in the music with this kind of guitar playing. And that's why I dig this album so much, it's got that rock energy and attitude in every song - even 'Slidey Boy'. Tunes like that can easily get fluffy and wimpy, but Guthrie keeps it rocking.
I quite agree about it being first and foremost 'Rock', it definately has that feel to it- and I guess it's easy to sound 'jazzy' when using more than traditional rock harmony.
I guess it's more the approach to the songs, I feel that some tracks on EC fit quite nicely into the style of music with a lot of solos- in the tradition of jazz, and after all this is instrumental lead guitar music!
It's just that the players I tend to listen to seem to have slightly different song structures, e.g. Eklundh, Beck, BBF where the 'solo-y bits' tend to come in a quite definate solo section, as if it were a vocal/pop band song. Although there may be small lead fills in other sections of the song.
I think there are some guys who rely too heavily on long solo lead bits, everywhere- with unsubstantial themes and structure. This brings me to the conclusion that the reason I like EC is that while the song style may often be of the Jazz improvisational approach (which is popular with fusion guys) it doesn't over indulge and maintains good song structure so as to make it very listenable.
That said, there is definately a time and a place for very long, relentless guitar solos- and that is Live (or almost) Zappa albums.
Edit: Just to be clear- I do like and listen to Jazz and other improvisational music (E.g. Davis, Mclaughlin, Shakti, Coltrane, Nusrat, Django, King Crimson, Mingus, Booty Collins) it's just that in these genre's the players tend to be able to hold my interest for these longer periods of time than a lot of the 'jazz fusion guitarists' I hear.
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:16 am Post subject:
art wrote:
I quite agree about it being first and foremost 'Rock', it definately has that feel to it- and I guess it's easy to sound 'jazzy' when using more than traditional rock harmony.
I guess it's more the approach to the songs, I feel that some tracks on EC fit quite nicely into the style of music with a lot of solos- in the tradition of jazz, and after all this is instrumental lead guitar music!
It's just that the players I tend to listen to seem to have slightly different song structures, e.g. Eklundh, Beck, BBF where the 'solo-y bits' tend to come in a quite definate solo section, as if it were a vocal/pop band song. Although there may be small lead fills in other sections of the song.
I think there are some guys who rely too heavily on long solo lead bits, everywhere- with unsubstantial themes and structure. This brings me to the conclusion that the reason I like EC is that while the song style may often be of the Jazz improvisational approach (which is popular with fusion guys) it doesn't over indulge and maintains good song structure so as to make it very listenable.
That said, there is definately a time and a place for very long, relentless guitar solos- and that is Live (or almost) Zappa albums.
Edit: Just to be clear- I do like and listen to Jazz and other improvisational music (E.g. Davis, Mclaughlin, Shakti, Coltrane, Nusrat, Django, King Crimson, Mingus, Booty Collins) it's just that in these genre's the players tend to be able to hold my interest for these longer periods of time than a lot of the 'jazz fusion guitarists' I hear.
I totally understand what you're getting at. Guthrie breaks down the traditional pop/rock song structures quite a bit here and there and I think that's cool since these are instrumentals. Still, there is the loose intro-verse-chorus-bridge-verse-chorus-solo-chorus-outro structure to most of the songs. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not really into the jazzy-sounding electric fusion kind of stuff with Rhodes-like keyboard backing, Latin type rhythms, and the polite compressed-tone guitar solos. You know, the kind of stuff you hear in the hotel lounge or beachside restaurants. I don't know. I'm just not into it. I'd much rather listen to traditional jazz than a lot of what's considered fusion.
But like any other genre, there is good fusion and bad fusion. To me, Guthrie's more of a rock player with very strong jazz underpinnings than the typical fusion background. I guess I don't like the term "fusion" in the same way I don't like the term "shred" because we've all heard so much bad of each. I'd rather label Guthrie as a rock/jazz (but not jazz/rock! ) player with some "progressive" thrown in. Not that these terms really mean anything, but when people ask me to describe his style and what genre his music fits in, this is sort of what I'm thinking and how I'd explain it. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
Well, am I the only one who would kill for an instrumental DVD from him covering the material on the album?... That´d be sweeeeet... _________________ "Living comes much easier once we accept we´re dying"
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:45 am Post subject:
art wrote:
alexkhan wrote:
I'd rather label Guthrie as a rock/jazz (but not jazz/rock! ) player with some "progressive" thrown in.
With descriptions of Fire-Breathing Horses riding across the Tundra, you had better not out the word progressive.
That tune could have been called 'Temujin', Genghis Khan's real name. But you know, Guthrie's description is right on the money. There really is something "Asian" in feel about it. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:55 am Post subject:
Carlo wrote:
I can't wait for the next Guthrie CD. Where does he go from here?
I ask the same. It's amazing to think that this is his debut album. But, as far as I'm concerned, this album is simply an "introduction" of all that Guthrie is capable of - the tip of the iceberg. I've seen him do things in person that are only hinted at on the album. This album is a landmark in that it's a beginning of a new era - "shred" or stunt guitar or OTT guitar or whatever in that realm that is intelligent, full of feel, creative, toneful, and all that other good stuff. Guthrie's potential is so vast that it's almost impossible to imagine what his next album will be like or where he'll be in 5~10 years.
BTW, what's up with the Paris avatar? _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
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