I agree that Willis was influenced by Jaco, but also by Rocco Prestia and many others. I'm influenced by Jeff Beck, Ritchie Blackmore, Jimi Hendrix, John Scofield, George Benson, Johnny Winter, and many others. People who have a limited knowledge of fusion might compare Willis to Jaco just because they hear a fretless bass and 16th notes, or compare me to Beck just because they hear the whammy bar. People who are more educated can clearly hear that both Willis and I have our own distinct voices, which came from learning the vocabulary of our influences and building our own thing on top of it. For example, Tommy Emmanuel/ Chet Atkins, Jeff Beck/ Les Paul, Michael Brecker/ John Coltrane, Bireli LaGrene/ Django Reinhardt. They all developed their own voices, but the influences can be heard, and there's nothing wrong with that.
However, Kinsey didn't do anything except copy Joe, and not only his playing style, but his sounds, his post Weather Report tunes, which were mostly one chord vamps, and even his personal instrument (the vocoder), which he used EXACTLY the way Joe did. Yes, the first four Tribal Tech albums sounded much less like Weather Report, because those keyboard players didn't sound like Joe.
There are piano solos on Tribal Tech albums, especially the Willis tunes, where Kinsey was literally forced to play funk, and he played his ass off. He also plays acoustic piano extremely well - too bad he's not the least bit interested in either one. He'd rather play that rubato sheep-herding crap over a one chord loop. I can think of no greater waste of amazing talent than Scott Kinsey. He's a bad ass musician, but he never developed his own voice.
I have to say that I've been guilty in the past of being a pretty lazy-ass band leader. I love the way Alan Hertz and Travis Carlton play, so I don't plan on any changes. However, there are musicians that I've hired in the past who should've been fired much earlier. I was thinking more about friendship and keeping things easy rather than making the best music.
Had that led to a disagreement between you and Willis? I am asking that because Kinsey was still playing a lot with Willis, even after TT was done.
Have you heard what they did together recently?
Also, since it is a TT thread, one last question about the band : How far had you gone with the new line-up? Did you record something? Did you feel that it was gonna be good? And would it be possible that you and Willis play together again? (be it analbum, a tour, or a one shot)
There wasn't a disagreement between Willis and me, though it's common knowledge that he prefers playing with keyboard players over guitar players, and he LOVES synths. He has a whole synth arsenal himself, and I highly doubt that any keyboard player in Spain can even come close to Kinsey in that department. If Willis likes working with him, he's just making more music that'll be compared to Weather Report - apparently that doesn't bother him. I'm not interested in hearing whatever project they did together - I already know what it sounds like.
And as I just mentioned, I don't think Willis has any plans to work with me again, or any other guitar players.
The version of TT with Gergo and Deron never recorded anything - there were only a few conversations. I think it would've been a great band - I've worked with both of them and they're amazing players.
Funny, I was reading your answer while listening to Bireli Lagrene quartet (including Willis). So I would not say he has no plan to work with any guitarist.
But I looks like another wolrd between you and Bireli. So maybe you meant he does not plan to work with rock, blues, fusion guitarists.
By the way, it looks like Gary Willis has learned the same lesson as Jeff Berlin : the bass player is there also to provide a root!
I'm aware that Willis plays with Bireli sometimes and really likes his playing, as do I. But he's a sideman in Bireli's band - I don't think he'll ever hire a guitar player for his own projects. If he does, I'll be very surprised.
I'm actually surprised that Willis still uses Kinsey at all. After X, he was very pissed off at him for not returning calls, emails and texts, and generally disappearing when he was supposed to be working on Willis's tunes.
It's very interesting for me to read these posts about Tribal Tech and all the insights into the band especially because I myself am a band leader and am always trying to make sure that the band works musically and personally so that everybody's happy, the vibe is good and the music is bumpin'.
The impression I get from what you right is that TT not always worked on a personal level and was more of a business/company arrangement where you guys got together to make a record and go on tour because there was a demand for it (you got an advance from the record company, a tour has been booked, the money was right) and not necessarily because things were working musically and personally between all of you. Or do you see that in hindsight now?
I wanted to ask if you could maybe elaborate on that and your approach on being a band leader, running a band (being in a band) and the personal and professional aspects that go into making things work.
On a financial level it was a business - Willis and I paid the sidemen a salary for recording and touring, and we split what was left, which usually wasn't much. They always made more than us in the states, but we usually made more than them overseas.
Personal issues changed as band members changed, but Tribal Tech was mostly known for the Kinsey/Covington version because they joined the band when we started touring, and they were in the band the longest. That was also the most dysfunctional band, especially on stage.
Kinsey and Covington were both fired soon after the X album, for personal and musical reasons, and I've said before that the personal reasons are private, so I can't talk about that. I will say that our agent told us "if you want me to keep booking you, get another drummer." Kinsey and I played well together in the studio, but sadly not so well on stage. He's an excellent player but I've heard other musicians share my opinion that he doesn't pay much attention to their playing, and that was my main problem with him musically - plus the fact that he was continually stuck in Joe mode, even when the music called for a completely different style of playing. Willis and I both love funk, and I can't count the times I saw Willis giving Kinsey the evil eye because he just wouldn't go there, even though it's clear that he can. (check out his solo on Stoopid) Also, we got sick of seeing his head buried in charts, even on tunes he's been playing for years. When things get to a point where there's more bad than good, you have to fire people - that's any boss's dilemma.
There are great moments on Tribal Tech records which I'll always be proud of, but the band was better in the studio than live in my opinion. We played too loud on stage to interact properly or create the space, dynamics, or subtleties on the recordings, and that's another reason I was frustrated with the band. I'm amazed that I'm still able to hear after playing with Heredia and Covington - both great players but holy shit, those snare drums..... tuned to give you the worst headache of your life. My trio used to play at Tone Merchants in LA, run by Ed Yoon who would later work for Suhr. He had a lot of famous heavy metal bands playing there, but he told me that Cov was the loudest drummer to ever play the room. I'm sure it was more about the volume and frequency of the snare drum - fucking insane.
Willis and I were ready to start a new version of the band, but I realized I enjoy playing trio more than playing with keyboard players, and Willis decided to play with his own groups in Europe, so we decided to end Tribal Tech. No hard feelings whatsoever between us - he's an incredible musician and working with him was a privilege.
The lesson I learned from all this is to put music first - if you're a bandleader who's unhappy with someone's sound or playing and they can't give you what you need, fire them immediately. The music is more important than friendship. Also, don't tolerate anyone who behaves in an unprofessional manner - for that there should be absolutely no second chances.
I just noticed this (because I listen more than I watch) : Gary Willis' name only appeared on cover with the album named Tribal Tech (though he already wrote many tracks on Nomad).
So was it your own project at the beginning, and was he only a musician that you hired like the others? If so, do you remember thinking "he's damn good, I should try to keep him with me, let's give him some place on the cover" ?
It was more about the writing - on the first albums I wrote most of the music. As Willis began to bring in more tunes, it was only fair that we started putting his name on the cover. Money wasn't an issue back then because we never got personal advances or royalties - the full budget went into making the record, and the albums never sold enough to make royalties. By the time we started touring, Willis was writing half of the music so we were officially partners.
Scott I know you don't want to talk about this but I have to comment. You don't totally understand the impact Thick, Rocket Science, and X had on me and my musician friends in KC along with other people around the world. My favorite songs off those records sound nothing like WR. End of fucking story. But those records were a gateway for me into WR and other fusion music which is a beautiful thing. Just like McLaughlin and Mahavishnu were a gateway into straight ahead jazz and electric miles for me in college. And being 26 years old I'm very grateful TT helped in getting me into WR because it's not like people my age are talking about this shit. But your nowhere close to the same fucking band. Kinsey plays lines in his solo's all the time Joe never played. Sco is my hero but he plays more cliche grooves and feels than later TT ever did. You love to play the blues and there's nothing less original than carrying on a old tradition like the blues or bebop as much as I love it. It sucks to hear you say shit like this about later TT because I would give my left nut to have a band that has that sound. If those last three TT albums are un original I have no fucking chance to do anything original. What's a musician supposed to do when they love a certain color or style and want to be apart of that? You just stop listing to music and try to write some crazy shit that has nothing to do with what you love? Like Krantz or something. Anyway me and my gf Kaylee love the podcast and I thank you and Bruce for taking time to do that. I can't wait for your new Master Class video.
Thanks Jace, If Tribal Tech introduced you to Weather Report, that's definitely a good thing. Maybe you didn't read the part where I said Tribal Tech was a great band, and I appreciate all the support from the fans.
That being said, this is a forum where I'm very honest when people ask me questions. Imagine yourself in a band which had a lot of fans, but you aren't happy in that band - in your opinion, your playing is ignored by other members of the band, someone in the band is stealing their sounds and ideas from a more famous and respected musician, the band plays so loud that your ears ring after every show, and someone in the band is always doing unbelievably unprofessional bullshit - and you have to clean up his messes. I'm so fucking happy to be rid of Tribal Tech that words can't express it. Also, becoming a better guitarist by playing trio for the last 17 years hasn't hurt my composing or "modern" direction. To answer your question, you follow your ears and make the best music you can, with the best players you can find - that never changed for me when Tribal Tech ended.
Last edited by Scott Henderson on Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
I didn't think I'd write again on that thread, but I have one more question.
If Kinsey loved to play like Joe, and Kirk wanted to be on fire all of the time, it was their choice. You didn't like that, but they did. That was a reall issue.
But if the sound was so loud that there was no possible interplay, I doubt that any of the band members was happy with it (maybe they were, you'll tell). So was there nothing you could do about this?
Sure there was, if we weren't young and stupid. In hindsight, I should've been a real bandleader and told those guys what to do according to what the music needed - instead I went along and tried to avoid drama. I could've told Kirk to tune his snare/timbale down to normal, but he likes that sound (migraine city). Willis could've ordered Kinsey to play funk rhodes when the tune needed it - instead, we just accepted the situation.
Kinsey is a terrible conversational musician - I don't have a problem saying that because it's true. In his band, he cranks up his loops so loud that dynamics and interplay simply don't exist. That's his world, and interplay on stage just isn't his thing. Loud Tribal Tech jams that didn't go anywhere never bothered him.
If you listen to tunes on our jamming records like Sojlevska and Palm Moon Plaza, we were able to react to each other really well because we were playing soft. On loud jams over one chord, much more post production was needed to make things happen. That's OK for the studio, but you can't do it live. The stage volume basically ruined so much of our creative energy that for me it was impossible to get into the zone. As I said before, when we were playing arrangements it didn't matter as much - the dynamics were pre-built into those tunes. It's the loose, free material which could've been creative and musical, but often went nowhere because of the volume.
On a positive note, we were lucky to play a few places with great acoustics like Ronnie Scott's in London. The acoustics in those rooms cut our volume in half, and we had very creative gigs.
The lesson here is to do what my trio does - good sound checks, where the goal is to tame loud rooms by setting up further away from each other and simply turning down! We keep improving our strategies and now I don't think there's a room anywhere we can't handle. If Tribal Tech had that same philosophy, I wouldn't have been so frustrated all the time. Like I said, young and stupid.
Joined: 18 May 2016 Posts: 55 Location: Herndon, VA
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:20 am Post subject:
Scott,
You mentioned great rooms to play like Ronnie Scott's in London. Can you name some of your other favorite places to play and places that weren't so great but being able to turn down made them better than they usually are. Also would you rather it be a larger/louder room so you can space yourselves further away from each other and turn down or a smaller room where you can just turn down lower and really hear/see each other for better interplay between each other.
I also want to say that although I agree with Scott's perception about TT and Weather Report, I also want to mention that TT was a much more electric band because of Scott in the Wayne Shorter/sax position and Joe's leadership made them a different listen in my book. No matter what the perception they are/were both GREAT bands to listen to! And I agree with Scott that had they played a little quieter and listened to each other more live, they could have done so much more inspired improvising. Although I loved Kirk's playing and antics, as a drummer I still can hear his snare in my sleep!
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Users Currently Chatting
