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Kerry Wright 2x12 vs 4x12 vs other cabs

 
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mikoo69



Joined: 27 Apr 2016
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:46 am    Post subject: Kerry Wright 2x12 vs 4x12 vs other cabs Reply with quote

Hi Scott,

I'm looking at a Kerry Wright offset 2x12 with open back (also comes with a closed back), for a Marshall JTM45. Not sure I can transport a 4x12 these days, though if the tone is superior in your opinion, I'd consider it.

Thoughts on KW 2x12s vs 4x12?

Do you recommend using the closed back for recording and open for live on the 2x12?

Lastly, the cab is really expensive, so are there any other cheaper options worth looking at for 2x12s to pair with a 30 watt Marshall like the JTM45?

The KW 2x12 is going to cost around $2K and not sure it's $1K better than another builder like a Bruno cab, or Stoneage or something comparable.

FYI deciding between Celestion G12-65s or Tone Tubby Purple Haze Alnico Hempcones. Any thoughts on these speakers?
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Scott Henderson
The Man


Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1395

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer the Kerry cabs to any others I've tried, but I haven't heard the ones you mentioned. Kerry has been building cabs for the top guitarists in the world for many years so I think his reputation speaks for itself.

Personally I like open backs live and closed backs for recording, but in a big room an open back records fine - my room is too small for an open back because the reflections of the room ruin the tone.

You'll get a bigger sound from a 4x12 for sure, but listen to the latest Mike Landau live album - that's a 2x12 and it sounds amazing.

I haven't heard the speakers you mentioned but I'm a big fan of Heritage 65's in a 2x12.
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mikoo69



Joined: 27 Apr 2016
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Scott. I got the KW offset 2x12 with both open and closed back options, loaded with G12-65s. Some people on the Gear Page suggested the G12-65s might be too dark for the JTM45. Any thoughts on this?

I run the JTM with the Bass rolled all the way off, and also the presence off, so perhaps I can just compensate by turning up the presence?
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Scott Henderson
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 65's sounded too dark in a closed back 4x12, but they sound great to me in the open back 2x12 - I run my presence on 5 or 6.
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mikoo69



Joined: 27 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got the KW 2x12. The construction of the cabinet it amazing, though the G12-65s are really dark, and I find that they are almost muffled sounding, even with the open back and the bass on the amp completely off.

I compared my JTM45 through the KW with G12-65s and then also into a Vox AC30 2x12 open back cabinet with Celestion Blues. While I didn't love the blues, they had a crisp clear midrange and high end, whereas the G12-65s just sound really dull in comparison. I also ran my Fender amp through the cab and also sounded too dark and bassy.

Any advice on EQing a Marshall amp with these speakers?
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Scott Henderson
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's possible that I just like a darker tone than you do. My Marshall settings are pretty normal - presence 6, bass 1, treble 4, mid 4 or 5. My 65's in a KW open back 2x12 are about the same brightness as my Greenbacks in a closed back 4x12. As I said before, I also thought the 65's were too dark in a closed back 4x12.

One factor might be the room - my recording room could be brighter than yours, and an open back cabinet takes on the characteristics of the room more than a closed back.

I haven't tried many higher watt speakers - just the Creambacks. I'm sure there are high watt speakers that are brighter than the 65's, but I have no idea what they sound like - sorry I couldn't be more help.
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mikoo69



Joined: 27 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Scott,

I purchased some IRs directly from Celestion to compare the G1265 sound to some other models. The Greenbacks sounded wonderful with the JTM45; they seemed like a much better speaker for the amp; lots of clarity.

I spoke to Dave from LA Sound Design and he recommended the G12H (75hz) version of the Greenback specifically.

However Celestion only has IRs for the standard G12M Greenback so I can't compare that to the G12H, and am trying to determine which to go for.

Any thoughts on which particular Greenback to go for with the KW 2x12 semi-open?

Since I also plan to run my Fender Deluxe Reverb through this cab to record, do you have any opinions on Fenders and Greenbacks?

Thanks!
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Scott Henderson
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Chinese Greenbacks are my favorites - I like them with both Marshalls and Fenders. I've tried the Heritage Greenbacks - they don't sound that great to me. The G12H which Dave recommends has a midrange honk I don't like. I have a cabinet with vintage 1969 and 1971 Greenbacks which sound really cool and remind me of Led Zeppelin, but they're a bit dark. For my style, the Chinese Greenbacks are the best - I've been using them for a long time. The Celestion IR called "Balanced" is extremely close to what my speakers sound like - I'm not sure you'd hear the difference in a mix.
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mikoo69



Joined: 27 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Scott. The Balanced IR sounds awesome, so I'm sure I'll love the Greenbacks.

Are you familiar with Scumback Speakers? Seems lots of people who like Greenbacks go for the Scumback M75 I believe.
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Scott Henderson
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Scumbacks, though the ones I tried were a little darker than Chinese Greenbacks - I'm sure he has others which are brighter. Jim Seavall definitely knows speakers and he's given me lots of advice. I bought two of my vintage Greenbacks from him.
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Thumberstrummer



Joined: 12 Oct 2014
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi.
This is just to add my 2 cents, if Scott doesn't mind...
I also have a JTM45 plexi replica, hand built in the US and I am going through the same issues with my speakers, having made the wrong choice when ordering my semi open cab from the same builder.
Despite Greg's (Germino, the builder) advice, I ordered it loaded with 2 G12H 75 htz speakers instead of the Greenbacks, and I fully agree with Scott, they have woofy mids that are driving me crazy.
In addition to that, they are way more efficient (100 db) than Greenbacks (98 db), so that I am also having some volume issues on stage, with sound guys alwais complaining, although my amp is 'only' 50 w.
You should consider that JTM45 normally is the plexi bass voiced version - same as a 'standard' plexi, but with a more bassy attitude (it depends on caps in the circuit, which have higher values than standard). I've been told it was born to be used as a bass amp, back in the golden days of R&R, until the day Guitar players felt in love with it.
I love that, as being a strat player, I am not a big fan of those classic ice picking strat tones... but due to that, it is harder to match a JTM 45 with the right speaker.
It must be because of that darker character, that Greg's advice is to swap speakers, replacing them with (chinese) Greenbacks, same as Scott says, or to opt for a G12 65 (NOT the G12 M 65, the s.c. Creamback) in case of a single speaker cab.
Hope this does not muddy waters...
Bye
Fabio
_________________
Germino Club 40 plexi replica + EJ Strat w Suhr ML st. pups. I'm not asking for more so far (but then we'll see...)
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mikoo69



Joined: 27 Apr 2016
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Fabio,

Interesting post. My JTM45 is a 30 Watt "Super Tremolo" THW Reissue. Not sure how similar it is to your 50 watt JTM45 Plexi.

Anyway, I decided to go for the G12H (75hz) for a few reasons.

Kerry recommended it directly when we spoke. Dave from LA Sound Deisgn recommended it. Both Celestion and Marshall recommended it independently. Then I downloaded IRs from Celestion to compare G12M Chinese Greenbacks to the G12H Anniversary (similar spec to the G12H 75hz). I preferred the G12H to the G12M.

Celestion also explained that the G12M was similar to the G1265, in that since it had the same size voice coil. The G12H 75 has a different size, that would give me a tighter low end (one of my issues with the G1265 with this amp was the low end, as well as being too dark in general).

Anyway, hopefully I dig them when they arrive. Kerry was pretty certain that for the JTM45, the G1265 was not the way to go and the G12H (75hz) was. I'll report back once I try them.
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mikoo69



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dropped in the Celestion G12H30 (75Hz) speakers into the KW 2x12 as recommended by Kerry himself.

PERFECT!

The G1265s were definitely the wrong speaker for the JTM45. I can't say anything about the Chinese greenbacks vs these, but from talking to Celestion, it seems the Chinese would have more in common with the G1265 in some respects.

I asked Avatar speakers to break them in for me before sending them out, which they apparently did, though I'm sure they'll get sweeter the more I play them.

Also, I preferred the sound with the closed back configuration. While I understand the open back might be a good idea for stage spread, etc. something about the closed back just felt right with the Celestion/Marshall.

I'd like to compare them to the Chinese greenbacks at some point, but there's nothing about these speakers I don't like at the moment, so I'm going to stick with them for now.

Thanks for the advice Scott!
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