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Fender HRD -> Suhr Bella

 
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Dr.Jackle



Joined: 05 Sep 2017
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:42 am    Post subject: Fender HRD -> Suhr Bella Reply with quote

Hi Scott!

I've read you used a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe when doing low volume gigs and switched to Suhr Bella when that came out. How far apart are they regarding the overall eq? Do you find the two interact very different with distortion pedals?

I also have a HRD and think it sounds fine for the price, but it isn't the most reliable amp and I'm thinking of just buying the Bella to get a piece of mind while gigging. I don't have an opportunity to try it as we don't have a dealer in my country. I'm sure the Bella by itself sounds way better than HRD, but you know, sometimes an amp that sounds good by itself doesn't interact with pedals the way you'd like to. I've gone through tens of dirt pedals to find few that I like most (SD-9 being one of them) and my concern is that I have to go through the process again if get a new amp. Thanks!
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Scott Henderson
The Man


Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 2121

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bella sounds much better than the HRD, but it's a lot louder and it's not a master volume amp. It needs to be turned up pretty loud to do it's thing, but might be perfect for you if you play in a loud band. It's not an amp to achieve high gain at a soft gig - I still use my HRD for that.
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Dr.Jackle



Joined: 05 Sep 2017
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott Henderson wrote:
The Bella sounds much better than the HRD, but it's a lot louder and it's not a master volume amp. It needs to be turned up pretty loud to do it's thing, but might be perfect for you if you play in a loud band. It's not an amp to achieve high gain at a soft gig - I still use my HRD for that.


When you say the Bella is loud or louder than HRD, I suppose you mean how loud it has to be to get an ideal sound? I suppose to volume control of Bella is input gain but is this different with HRD clean channel? Is the HRD clean channel volume actually a master volume and the input gain adjustment is fixed?

The way I use my pedals I want the amp really clean. I very rarely kick the amp to overdrive with simply boosting the volume before the input. Well, I guess I'm just driving myself nuts with speculation before I actually get to try the Bella, which means buying it. Very Happy
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Scott Henderson
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The FX loop on an HRD is between the preamp and power section. I only use the clean channel, and I turn the preamp up to about 7 with a pedal. I put a volume control in the FX loop, so I'm able to turn up and down without affecting the gain.

The Bella is different - in the same situation, turning the volume control down will affect the gain. This is because the Bella's FX loop is in a different place than in the HRD.

That being said, the Bella has to be turned up louder to produce gain, just like a plexi Marshall. The Bella is a great sounding amp, but it needs to fit with the volume of the band - if you play with a rock-style drummer, it should work. However if you're playing in restaurants with a soft drummer, a master volume amp would be a better choice.
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Dr.Jackle



Joined: 05 Sep 2017
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott Henderson wrote:
The FX loop on an HRD is between the preamp and power section. I only use the clean channel, and I turn the preamp up to about 7 with a pedal. I put a volume control in the FX loop, so I'm able to turn up and down without affecting the gain.


Ok, this is news to me! Browsing through old posts I thought you just put a more inefficient speaker (G12-65) in it and run the clean channel volume on 4. I guess running the channel volume on 7 you do get some crunch out of the preamp, which up until 4 is really, really clean.

Quote:

The Bella is different - in the same situation, turning the volume control down will affect the gain. This is because the Bella's FX loop is in a different place than in the HRD.

That being said, the Bella has to be turned up louder to produce gain, just like a plexi Marshall. The Bella is a great sounding amp, but it needs to fit with the volume of the band - if you play with a rock-style drummer, it should work. However if you're playing in restaurants with a soft drummer, a master volume amp would be a better choice.


Hmm, sometimes I do need to get a decent sound at a softer level. As common a need I think it would be, it seems there's not an abundace of 30-50w class AB fixed bias combos suitable as a clean pedal platform. The Bella is advertised as such, but the lack of master volume does hinder it. Thanks for your input, made me reconsider if the Bella is the right amp for me.

Have you tried the Hot Rod Deville Fender just did/modified for Michael Landau? Everything else seems attractive but the 2x12 configuration and thus the weight.
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Scott Henderson
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the Deluxe is very clean on 4, but at 7 you get some crunch. That would be way too loud for my small gig needs, so putting a volume control in the FX loop solves the problem.

Many people use a high gain pedal into a totally clean amp - it's not my favorite sound, but it gets the job done. I just wanted to be honest about the Bella being a "loud" amp. It's always a trade off with non-master volume amps. If it's too loud for the gig, you don't get to turn it up loud enough to get crunch. If it's too soft for the gig, the soloing volume might be OK, but there's not enough headroom for a clean tone.

The Landau version of the HRD simply gets rid of the lead and crunch channels. Unfortunately on the stock HRD, the signal passes through the lead and crunch channels even when they're not on. It's just like going though non-true bypass pedals - it usually messes up the tone. I'm sure the Landau version sounds much better.
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Dr.Jackle



Joined: 05 Sep 2017
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott Henderson wrote:

Many people use a high gain pedal into a totally clean amp - it's not my favorite sound, but it gets the job done. I just wanted to be honest about the Bella being a "loud" amp. It's always a trade off with non-master volume amps. If it's too loud for the gig, you don't get to turn it up loud enough to get crunch. If it's too soft for the gig, the soloing volume might be OK, but there's not enough headroom for a clean tone.

The Landau version of the HRD simply gets rid of the lead and crunch channels. Unfortunately on the stock HRD, the signal passes through the lead and crunch channels even when they're not on. It's just like going though non-true bypass pedals - it usually messes up the tone. I'm sure the Landau version sounds much better.


Do you know if Landau utilizes the same kind of trick as you, attenuating the volume with an external volume control in the loop? I just tried to do quick google search but didn't find information. I'm having a hard time imagining he would just crank a 2x12 60w non-master volume amp to the edge of breakup when playing in smaller or medium sized club.
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Scott Henderson
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I don't know how Mike controls his volume. I've seen him play many times and he changes amps a lot - I've actually never seen him use his signature DeVilles.
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dizzy



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 401

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw him a few times. He used his volume pedal to control his volume post gain pedals. He changed his volume only between phrases and not mid phrase so this worked for him where I think Scott needs more subtle changes.

Landau was really loud. Louder then Scott wirh his Marshall.
Landau was playing a blackface deluxe and a blackface super at the same time both on 8. He had his time effects coming out of 2 wet cabs.

I like loud music so it didn't bother me but my ears rang the next day!
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