Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:38 pm Post subject: Guthrie Doesn't Use His Pinky Very Much
Watching the videos, everybody comments that he hardley ever uses his pinky during solos, yet the lines he plays certainly aren't pentatonic-based most of the time. I notice that when he does use his pinky for wide stretches, the facility of his pinky is as good as that of other players known for strong pinkies - Holdsworth, Lane, Yngwie, Fripp, etc. But there's another guy who you'd think uses the pinky a lot but doesn't and that's Metheny. And Pat's got very small hands!
What I've noticed is that Guthrie shifts positions really fast and uses adjacent strings for the "extended notes" that others would rely on with the use of the pinky on the same string. He also uses the middle and the ring fingers for the notes that most others would use the ring finger and the pinky for. He does have very long fingers for a guy his size. I mean, look at that picture on the left upper corner here. Those are abnormally large hands for a guy his build.
Anyway, Guthrie doesn't use his pinky a whole lot, but I believe there are good reasons for it. He does have incredible facility on his pinky when it's needed, but I really think it's the position shifts and use of the adjacent higher string that really doesn't call for the use of the pinky very much. I use my pinky a lot using the basic 3-note-per-string approach and Guthrie's got me thinking a lot about the way he does things because it's good to have the ring finger available for the bends on that 3rd note of the string you're on. But I'm getting the sense that old habits are going to be difficult to break... _________________ Ed Yoon
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Last edited by alexkhan on Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 13 Sep 2004 Posts: 101 Location: Chula Vista, CA
Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:11 pm Post subject:
Ed, funny you mentioned Metheny. As soon as I read the title of the thread Pat popped into my head.
From my standpoint, I didn't use my pinky AT ALL for quite a few years when I started playing. Then I got into a major Steve Howe kick and started needing it. I would practice endlessly only using my index and pinky in order to build up its strength (hadn't thought about the pain from the early days of that in years!). Now it is so second nature I don't even think about it anymore which comes in handy for all of my "attempts" at Holdsworth and Shawn Lane stuff. _________________ What would we all do without guitars............. take up knitting?
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:36 pm Post subject:
Using the index, middle, and ring for three notes per string is possible and I see that Guthrie and someone like Steve Morse do that quite often. So does Yngwie and Vai, especially up on the high frets. But I've read some instructional books that tell you never to skip frets between your middle and ring fingers. That's when you have to use the pinky. So I've always stuck by that principle, but then I see Guthrie and others playing these long scalar lines that certainly makes use of at least 3 notes per string and they hardly use their pinky. Hope Guthrie can throw a light on this sometime... _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
I got pulled up on this recently by my guitar teacher.. he was taking me to task over my dubious vibrato (not returning to the unaltered note). Before the last lesson I'd practiced a different vibrato style and due to my invented practice regime my pinky got more attention. I've got great SRV tone in my little finger now , the rest took a back seat.
I was told to focus on my 1st and 3rd fingers... and also told to ignore scale fingerings when playing as I adhered to them a lot. I got told to enforce restrictions like wrong fingers and not play strings or frets, during practice to improve my fretboard memory rather than finger memory (my words).. it's worked, but I still find playing chromatically means all four fingers lock into their frets.
I don't sweat that too much as I'm learning the lead line for "Tossed Salad and Scrambled Eggs" to play over neo jazz blues lounge music (I'm more a musical comedian than musician). 4 fingers in a row means I can rip throw the "well baby I hear the blues are callin' tossed salad and scrambled egg..' then theres a lick I pinched from a kids show "kipper the dog" which I have to switch and use 3 fingers for as my little finger just slows it down.
I feel a lot like a guy who's learning to walk again, having to relearn stuff I've been doing since I was 6) at present. The teacher's I've had in the past have been technicians and theorists, so I got a myopic view of a subject. I'm not about to unlearn stuff, just shunt it over and add an "or do this" I think: if it makes for a different sound or feel, it's not wrong and it's okay to keep. _________________ Fabulous powers were revealed to me the day I held my magic Suhr(d) aloft and said "by the power of great scale!"
Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Posts: 65 Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:22 am Post subject:
Using your pinky is definitely hard to do if you haven't already. I was a big Paul Gilbert fan and he's got major pinky usage in almost everything he plays. It seems like the most irritating finger to keep under control. If I don't keep my practice schedule up consistently, my pinky is the first to start stiffening up.
Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 8 Location: Petaling Jaya, MALAYSIA
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:57 pm Post subject:
Personally – due to my classical foundation and perhaps physical limitation (rather small hand) – I use my pinky a lot. I’ve seen some handouts from Pat Metheny’s clinic on warm-up and exercises and almost all of them indicated the use of finger 4 or pinky.
I guess at the end of the day, technicality aside, it’s about conveying the music naturally and instinctively without worrying about which finger to play that min/Maj 3rd on the same string! Check out Video Clip 2 by Al Estrada – www.alestrada.com – he’s playing the first position with just three fingers – very much a no-no for classical guitar
I think Pierre Bensusan mentioned something about ‘the music leading the fingers’ rather than the other way around, and speaking of French guitarist – what about Django Reinhardt flowing thru the changes with two fingers!
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