Guthrie Govan Discussion

[alexkhan]

Interesting...

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=d1c83040cd7c25e09f7115952b77f1bc&threadid=947960&highlight=Guthrie+Govan

Why do people always have to go on this "Who's the BEST?" trip?
_________________
Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.

[shredrulez]

well, what do you expect from bozoland that is harmony central?

and the king bozo must be the one who says there are at least 10 guys who are at least as good for every guthrie. yeah, right. and i firmly believe i'll win the next lotto.

i think it's interesting one guy thought that guthrie's phrasing was "mechancal". hmmm... perhaps there is something like that in guthrie's phrasing as he does have a "studied" kind of thing about him. i don't hear it that way but apparently some people do.

hc's a joke. it's like the kindergarten of forums. i used to hang out there many years ago but have long since moved onto where there are people with 3-digit IQ's.

[shredrulez]

woah! i just noticed that 40% did vote guthrie as the "best".

i guess some of them over there aren't bozos after all!

[EricT]

Well, he seems to get good responses in general.. Very cool!
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"Fishing for the right note"

[alexkhan]

Well, it seems a lot of people are making judgments based on the little video clips on the TM site or perhaps the DVDs, but I don't think one really can appreciate the impact of what Guthrie does unless you see him live in person for around 2 hours - be it a clinic or a live show. I'd say the DVDs have 10 times the impact of the clips. Seeing him live then has 10 times the impact of the DVDs. Not even comparable.

I've been in the guitar biz for nearly 20 years and have seen all kinds of players and have sought to see the great ones as much as I can live in person and preferably up close. Many are absolutely amazing and no single player is the "best". But I disagree that there are 10 more just as good somewhere in some bedroom. Guthrie hasn't exactly been a secret who appeared all of a sudden out of nowhere. Mike Varney wanted to fly him out to the States from UK to make a CD nearly 15 years ago. Guthrie has been a fixture at the GT magazine for nearly as long as well. It's apparent now that people have been singing the praises about Guthrie since then.

Another thing about other "at least as good players" in bedrooms somewhere is that if they're just playing in their bedrooms, they can't be all that good because they don't interact with other musicians, which is what it's all about in the end. Guthrie has been playing out with other musicians for a very long, long time. He kept on improving and maturing by playing with better players and other great musicians. To me, this is what separates Guthrie from so many other "shredders" who sit in their bedrooms playing to metronomes and backing tracks and flood the Internet of them doing that. Guthrie goes out and plays - whether it's the weekly Fellowship thing, the duet gig he does with Zak in a small bar, accompanying a female torch jazz singer in a restaurant, or touring with Asia or doing live clinics and occasional shows with Erotic Cakes.

I see many very good players all the time and it's very easy to tell apart the ones who go out and play gigs and the ones who just play alone at home. The ones who play out have what I call "live chops". They may be blues players, Top 40 cover guys, EVH or SRV tribute band guys, metal freaks, or whatever, but they have looseness and confidence in their playing that is different from guys who are really good but don't get to play in front of an audience on a regular basis. Obviously, my preference is to listen to guys who go out and perform live with a real band. There is simply no substitute for that. Music is a communal experience and involves the player, the bandmates, and the audience. That's what makes it whole and complete. A guy playing 32nd notes at 300 bpm to a metronome or backing tracks in his bedroom is kind of meaningless as a whole musical experience and I've seen enough of it to have absolutely no interest in it whatsoever. Let's see what you can do with a band in front of a live audience.

As far as someone commenting that he thought that Guthrie's phrasing sounded mechanical and that he wasn't really grooving and things like that, I suppose some could view it that way. But it depends on what context that Guthrie was playing in and what it was that made this person come to that assumption and feel that way. On some of the straight-ahead rock/shred kinds of tunes, I think Guthrie is purposely avoiding sounding groovy and/or funky. He's just playing what fits that particular piece of music.

I do think that Guthrie will still get a lot better as an all-around musician and a player as well. Everybody can get better - that includes Holdsworth, Metheny, Beck, McLaughlin, DeLucia, etc. They're the types who would quit in a second if they didn't think they could do something better than they did yesterday. Same with Guthrie. I'm sure he feels he has holes and deficiencies in every area of his playing and is constantly striving to get better - even in the technique department because he'll still have to figure out how to play the new musical ideas that he comes up with. That's what I find the most exciting about Guthrie - the future and all the new musical ideas and works that he'll throw our way.
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Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.

[M@]

Couldn't agree more regarding the live playing... that's where one gains the greatest lessons.

As an example, when I was only about 13 years old, my older cousin would take me along to jam with his buddies (they were all about 18, which for me at the time seemed they were much older!). We used to just go to a warehouse and crank it up, I'd try and keep up playing Stones, Hendrix, Zepplin, ZZ Top etc... we would also play parties too.

That kind of experience really forces you to play better. It's like if you play a game of football (soccer) with a team of players that are better, then you end up having a great game (Actually, I was a really bad soccer player when I was a kid, but sometimes I would have to substitute into my brother's team, who were a higher grade... and those games were the best of my life!).

As a result of that, I was a much better guitar player than the guys my age (which probably isn't really saying much!). So yes, you cannot beat live playing regardless of your age, style, background etc...
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"My day job feeds my family, my night gig feeds my ego!"

[trelloskilos]

I think Ed said it best.

I hate people who feel the need to compare one guitarist to another. It's true, Guthrie doesn't seem to want the fame, definitely doesn't want the adulation and plaudits, and doesn't really want to take on the world in order to prove himself. He just wants to play music, and whatever side effects happen from that is taken in his stride.

He's not the best in the world -as if such a thing exists. He is, however, one of the the most technically proficient and exciting guitarists I've ever seen, and a jolly nice chap too!!!

As for the guy on the HC forum who thought he was 'bland', I don't think he knew what he was talking about. I stayed on after Frankus, Bowks & co. left the Bassment, to witness some of Guthrie's "Stress Relief" moments (He doesn't call the Bassment gigs "Therapy Night" for nothing) - He seems to be happiest and plays his best and most unexpected when he is completely improvising off the cuff, and when the interplay between musicians allows it, there's a lot of humour, and several surprises for the audience. Very few guitarists seem to have that ability anymore, and it's a rare commodity indeed to have a playing style that balances melodic awareness, technical proficiency, humour, passion, and as little ego-massaging wank as possible.

Also, just to add, although the focus on Guthrie's lead playing grabs the attention, he also knows exactly when to stop, and what/when to comp. Whatever he does is completely integral to the song and the other musicians that share the stage with him - a concept that even the Vais and Satrianis of the world seem to overlook!

[alexkhan]

Nice post, Trello! You've seen Guthrie perform live in person numerous times and it seems you've had some good chats with him as well. You truly understand the impact that Guthrie has in person and also what a genuinely down-to-earth guy he is. You're right. He's not interested in fame or stardom but is only interested in music itself and letting his pursuit of being the best musician that he can be take its course.

What a contast he is to so many lesser players who try so hard to promote themselves wherever and whenever possible! Sometimes I do wish he'd take a little more interest in promoting himself and things like that, but I guess he just can't get himself to do it or is just very uncomfortable about it. I do know that he finds this forum and all the adulation rather "freaky" as getting this type of recognition and praise certainly wasn't what he wanted or was shooting for. He does say that it's a positive thing that so many people are starting to latch onto what he's doing. He does appreciate the support.

As far as people saying that Guthrie's style or phrasing is "bland" or that he's just another shredder or whatever, I haven't heard anything like that from a single person who saw him in person or even after watching the DVDs. The people who are saying that are just basing it on a few video clips on the TM site. It's unfortunate those clips are so large and slow to download and that probably prevents a lot of people from viewing most of the clips and understanding the scope of all the things that Guthrie does. Even the two available DVDs right now cover well less than half of what Guthrie does and can do. I must have seen him play live for 15+ hours or so and I know that there are still all kinds of things that he can do that I haven't seen him do yet.

Yes, he loves to improvise. That's why he's drawn so much to jazz and its spirit of freedom although he's, at heart, a rocker who is open to every sort of musical style and genre out there. It's annoying when some people think that his solos on the DVDs are worked out in advance and that he's re-playing what's been written out. My thinking is that some people can't comprehend that such exquisite solos could be improvised. But I can tell you that I have never seen Guthrie play the same solo twice in any song - be it Erotic Cakes or the Fellowship. Sometimes I wish he would because some solo I've seen and heard him do before sounds so magical that I wish he'd just play that back as though it was a written-out composition.

As for your last point, I think the highest complement we could give to Guthrie is that he's a great musician who happens to play the guitar. In our narrow guitar-driven universe, there are so many players we tend to just view as great players but not as musicians along with great pianists, sax players, violinists, bassists, drummers, composers, etc. The truly great players transcend the instrument itself and it's about what's coming out of one's head and the heart, not what the fingers are doing. Guthrie is more than a great guitar player. He's truly a great musician. He really listens to what the other musicians in the band are doing.
_________________
Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.

[M@]

Well said.


What really makes me laugh is those guys on the Harmony Central forum link above that list ALL their equipment in their post signature!!! What is that??? Do we care??? I'm guessing it's symptomatic of "small dick" syndrome...



Cheers
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"My day job feeds my family, my night gig feeds my ego!"

[alexkhan]

[James W]

Yes... Ed that was spot on... like someone who has learnt a language just by sitting in their room and studying the grammar and vocab, compared to someone who has grown up with the language around them and used it practically...


J

[alexkhan]

[M@]

Yep! Couldn't agree more regarding the parallel's with music and language. I studied Mandarin (and some Cantonese) Chinese, and it wasn't until I actually lived in Beijing for a while that I really got a handle on it. Oh yeah, and just like music, it's important to do LOTS of active listening and "transcribing" to help the language absorb into your system.

Many great musicians and educators have used the analogy of music and language. Les Wise give's a nice example in his book "Bebop Bible"...



Cheers
_________________
"My day job feeds my family, my night gig feeds my ego!"

[alexkhan]

Music - the language of the subconscious and the soul...
_________________
Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.

[sah5150]