Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:55 am Post subject: Guthrie Trying Out A New Pick
So I was wondering what this new pick was that's in this photo. Guthrie had been using the Dunlop Jazz XL for years (the red one for a good long while and the black one the last few years, it seems).
So this mystery pick is called Red Bear and it's a boutique pick at $20 a piece! Guthrie said Dweezil Zappa gave him one to try and he says it sounds really nice. It's supposed to feel and sound like a real tortoise shell. Well, a boutique pick to go with a boutique guitar through a boutique amp for a boutique player! Check 'em out here:
I'll find out which shape and gauge Guthrie's using. Guess I'm going to have to fork out the $20 and see how this thing works out. Hey, just gotta cut back a bit on the visits to the local hamburger joints. _________________ Ed Yoon
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Last edited by alexkhan on Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
Jesus St Hubbins! That speed bevel bears a striking resemblance to the 23/10/92-you're-not-cyclic-picking-clockwise-pick-of-shame.
Basically I was supposed to cyclic pick both ways, that bevel only seems to be on one side _________________ Fabulous powers were revealed to me the day I held my magic Suhr(d) aloft and said "by the power of great scale!"
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:25 pm Post subject:
aveyz1 wrote:
no!!!!!! he cant change, the jazz III's have served him good for a long time!!
Hehe, Jazz XL's, you mean... As the title of the thread states, Guthrie is just trying one out.
I'm curious as I've never tried a real tortoise shell pick and this one is supposed to be indistinguishable according to long-time tortoise-shell pick users. It's supposed to be the "Holy Grail" of picks in the same way Mullard NOS EL34's are the "Holy Grail" of tubes, etc. I'm not into snake oil kinds of stuff and all the myths that shroud the world of guitar gear, but this intrigues me. After all, this is where it all starts - the pick hitting a string... _________________ Ed Yoon
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Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:15 pm Post subject:
Skyth wrote:
aveyz1 wrote:
keep us informed then ed, yeah?
also, p'm me guthries latest rig? be interested to hear from the man who works with him!
Yeah, is Guthrie already on the Axe Fx?
Guthrie considers digital modeling as the devil in bad disguise. He may use some sort of modeler (like the NI GR3 and AmpliTube on his MacBook) as a convenient tool, but I can assure you that a straightforward old world tube amp is by far his first choice. And I agree with Guthrie on this all the way. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
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Joined: 30 Dec 2005 Posts: 24 Location: hedge end /brightion
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: Guthrie Trying Out A New Pick
I'll find out which shape and gauge Guthrie's using. Guess I'm going to have to fork out the $20 and see how this thing works out. Hey, just gotta cut back a bit on the visits to the local hamburger joints. [/quote]
well it looks like he's using the Tri Tip Style Tortis Flat Guitar Pick if its $20 a pick I'll think I'll stick to sanding my Dunlop Delrin 2.0mm into a point for a bit longer but I do remember guithrie using Dunlop Big Stubby for a bit when he was teaching me about 3 years ago and he went back to Jazz xls
Joined: 13 May 2008 Posts: 112 Location: Huddersfield U.K
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:46 pm Post subject:
alexkhan wrote:
I'm curious as I've never tried a real tortoise shell pick and this one is supposed to be indistinguishable according to long-time tortoise-shell pick users.
I think I'll have to got to my Grandmothers house and dig up the dead tortoise she has in the garden, I could get about 50 picks out of it if I'm lucky,........that's $1000
Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: Guthrie Trying Out A New Pick
markpoulter5150 wrote:
well it looks like he's using the Tri Tip Style Tortis Flat Guitar Pick if its $20 a pick I'll think I'll stick to sanding my Dunlop Delrin 2.0mm into a point for a bit longer but I do remember guithrie using Dunlop Big Stubby for a bit when he was teaching me about 3 years ago and he went back to Jazz xls
It's a "Classic XH DZ" so that must mean Classic Extra Heavy Dweezil Zappa. Guthrie says it's not a shape that he's entirely comfortable with as he likes the pointed tips of the Jazz III and XL picks and he says the beveled edges are a little weird to him as well. It seems that the CII model would be closest to the Jazz XL shape. I guess he's already in talks with the guys at Red Bear for a custom pick which I assume will be a Jazz XL type of shape without the Speed Bevel. We'll see what develops but it does seem Guthrie is interested in going this route. And Guthrie did say that he tries out new picks all the time from all kinds of pick manufacturers (some, which I'm sure, are not so good), so he must really like this Red Bear. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
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Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:40 pm Post subject:
So I finally decided to take the plunge and ordered a 'Lil Jazzer with the grip and standard bevel in the heavy gauge. Normally, I'm inclined to get the extra heavy gauge but Red Bear states that their medium is like the Fender heavy so I don't think I'd want it too heavy. So I'll give this one a try. In this economy, a boutique pick is all I can look forward to! _________________ Ed Yoon
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Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:13 am Post subject:
Well, I just received a couple of Lil' Jazzers (Heavy) and a couple of Classics (Medium) for myself and John Suhr to try. And I must say, "Wow!" I love this pick. I've been going back and forth between the Red Bear and the Ultex Jazz III and, as far as I'm concerned, it really is no contest. The Red Bear's tone is pure (much less extraneous string noise), clear, warm, deep, and has a much better feel in its attack and smoother in its release. I'm really impressed.
The Lil' Jazzer really is little. It's even smaller than the Jazz III but that's no problem for me. I got 'em without the speed bevel and with the grip holes, which I definitely find useful for a more firm grip. I find the Classic a little large for me. I'd probably like to try the Classic II, which is a little smaller than the Classic and the CII, which is a bit smaller than the C and should be closer to the Jazz XL. The material feels really nice. It just has that expensive feel about 'em.
The look and the feel aside, what ultimately matters is how it sounds and how it plays and these Red Bear picks really deliver. If this really is what a genuine tortoise shell pick sounds and feels like, I can understand why the tortoise shell is considered the "Holy Grail" of picks and why they're so highly sought after. Playing-wise, it has an exceptionally nice balance between bouncy tactile response and smoothness - allowing you to dig in for that one killer note or play jaunty rhythm or play fast alternate-picking lines with equal ease. It also makes string-skipping and sweep-picking (which I really suck at) much easier and fun to play as well. Nice...
But the killer is the tone. It just sounds so pure - fat and warm yet clear and defined. You don't feel like you're hearing the strings anymore - just the notes resonating from the woods. There seems to be so much more "weight" behind each note you pick. The notes are focused and tight whereas with the other picks I'm comparing with - the Ultex Jazz III, Jazz XL Red, Jazz XL Black, Fender Extra Heavy and Fender Medium - they all sound "light" and airy, like the notes are breaking up and dispersing into the air. I don't know how else to really describe it. It's just one of those things you have to try out.
The only concern here is figuring out which size and gauge will work out the best for you and there's a lot of options here. The option you don't have is trying out a bunch at $20 apiece! I like the size of the Lil' Jazzer but would prefer something a little larger. The heavy gauge seems perfect for me although I'm tempted to try out the extra heavy. Ah, the temptation... Personally, I don't see the need for the speed bevel. I should also mention that the dynamics is great with this pick and it seems you have more control in shaping the different kinds of sound based on the angle you hit the strings at. I highly recommend this pick. I'll still keep my Ultex Jazz III's around, but I'm definitely sold on these Red Bears. _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
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Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 2783 Location: Chino, CA
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:44 pm Post subject:
sumis wrote:
so, how big a change to yoour sound/playing would you estimate it to be?
i mean compared to going from a no name crap cable to evidence lyric,
or going from dead to fresh strings,
or going from greenbacks to v30's?
.
The tonal difference is significant. I'd say more than going from a crappy generic cable to an Evidence or other boutique cables. But, you don't play the cables, so it's much more up to the player to make the difference when it comes to picks. Going from dead strings to fresh strings is a good analogy but it's not quite like that either.
$20 for a pick is a lot, but for those types who don't lose their picks or misplace their keys, it's a good investment if you find the one that you really, really like. Consider how important a violin bow is to the violin. Some bows cost tens of thousands on their own. The contact between the pick and the strings is where it all starts.
I really believe that a lot of players underrate or underestimate the amount of effect the pick has on their tone and playing. I'm not saying that one getting a $20 pick is the answer in the same way one needs to get a $200 guitar cable, but when guys are willing to spend $3K on a guitar and untold thousands more on amp/effects/cab/speaker/cable rig, the pick will probably make much more of a dramatic difference than, say, upgrading your old rack processor for something new that'd be considered the latest and the greatest. Obviously, YMMV... _________________ Ed Yoon
Certified Guthrie Fan-atic
BOING Music LLC - Managing Partner
.strandberg* Guitars USA
Ed Yoon Consulting & Management
Guitar Center Inc.
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